3.1rc3 Feedback

[pileofrogs]

Hi all. I just wanted to post my feedback on 3.1rc3. If this is the wrong place to do it, sorry! This is probably nothing new, just one user's feedback to throw on the big pile.

First, I'm on Linux. I'm using Fedora 16. Building was not enrtirely easy. I had to install lots of dependencies from repo and a few I had to download & build from source.

The physfs one was particularly annoying because there are lots of conversations on the interwebs saying never ever use 2.x, and then during build it fails without 2.x. I installed 2.0.3, which is the post-buggy version and it went fine after that. If you're a linux user trying to build 3.1, use physfs 2.0.3!

Anyway, on to the game itself. Overall, I found it more fun until I didn't.

It looked better, the bullets, walls, cliffs etc.. all looked nice. The added keyboard shortcuts are really awesome. The hardcrete gate is a cool addition. I was happy to see that you can't shoot through mountains any more.

Sadly, the unit pathing system is really broken. That's no surprise, I'm sure. Logjamming is a dealbreaker. I just had to stop playing. Also, the way units choose a route is pretty bad. If a unit wants to return to base to get repaired, they will choose the shortest route, which can mean going through the enemy base if you're attacking from the rear. They way they navigate past things in the way is funny to watch, sure, but not great for game play. Until that gets really fixed, I'm not going to be able to play 3.1.


And finally, a few suggestions:

I want unit lists you can use to select units. I think most games have something like this, but maybe I'm thinking of games like Civ... anyway, if I want to select a particular unit in a sea of units, or lost somewhere on the map, I have to visually search the map. Yes, there are keyboard shortcut improvements in 3.1 that make this better (yay, select sensors!), but I can't look at a list that shows that I have 5 sensors, one has 3 mortors assigned, has 80% health and 2 experience points etc... That would be really helpful.

It would be great if there were a way to use the selection hotkeys in kindof boolean combinations, like all armed units who aren't heavily damaged. Or all trucks who are on this particular screen.

Aaand, as long as I'm dreaming out loud, descriptions of what the techs/weapons actually do before you research them would be awesome. And maybe say what techs they unlock? And a wz2100-o-pedia. And please solve the Euro zone debt crisis, while you're at it.

So, yeah, I liked 3.1 a lot until the logjamming killed it for me. I would love unit selecting to be improved, but that's not as important.

Again, this is just one user's opinions. Please feel free to ignore.

Finally, thank you thank you thank you for all the hard work. Overall this is a great game, and one that I can actually play on my linux box, which is the ultimate decider for me.

[aubergine]

I can't solve the debt crisis (and who is the entire world in debt to anyway? hmmm...) but I can solve the warzone-o-pedia:

* https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/display/wzpedia
* https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/disp ... edia/Links <-- there are several more listed here

[Iluvalar]

BOOLEAN OPERATION (work for all cases)
CTLL+A select all army
CTRL+1 set it to group 1
Crtl+D select damaged units
CTRL+2 set them to group 2
press "1" : select the group 1 again
move it.

MUCH FASTER for this exemple :
CTRL+A select all unit
press "," ask all damaged unit to go to repair at medium damage (which cause them to deselect at the same time)
Move the remaining

[Lord Apocalypse]

Some of the ideas don't seem like they would fit well for an RTS. Good ideas though, maybe there is a way to wiggle several of them in. I'd say start picking individual ideas and posting them for a proper discussion (also helps to keep them from getting lost when one idea gets discussed more than the rest).

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Sadly, the unit pathing system is really broken. That's no surprise, I'm sure. Logjamming is a dealbreaker. I just had to stop playing. Also, the way units choose a route is pretty bad. If a unit wants to return to base to get repaired, they will choose the shortest route, which can mean going through the enemy base if you're attacking from the rear. They way they navigate past things in the way is funny to watch, sure, but not great for game play. Until that gets really fixed, I'm not going to be able to play 3.1.

I believe that you're far from being the only person around here that dislikes how unit pathfinding is handled in-game, though on the other hand, logjamming seems to be a common pathfinding issue of rts games in general (which is why many officially-designed maps in rts games tend to have fairly wide-open chokepoints), and I've never heard of a single rts game out there that uses a pathfinding system that actually "remembers" where units originally came from. Anyways, until such a pathfinding system is invented, you could try to build a Repair Facility just outside the rear entrance of your opponent's base to keep retreating units from trying to retreat through enemy lines.

And finally, a few suggestions:

I want unit lists you can use to select units. I think most games have something like this, but maybe I'm thinking of games like Civ... anyway, if I want to select a particular unit in a sea of units, or lost somewhere on the map, I have to visually search the map. Yes, there are keyboard shortcut improvements in 3.1 that make this better (yay, select sensors!), but I can't look at a list that shows that I have 5 sensors, one has 3 mortors assigned, has 80% health and 2 experience points etc... That would be really helpful.

As soon as you said that, I visualized some sort of StarCraft-esque unit list appearing on the bottom of Warzone 2100's HUD. That would be most useful, though other things would probably need to take precedence, so I'd personally expect this feature to be implemented later on.

Aaand, as long as I'm dreaming out loud, descriptions of what the techs/weapons actually do before you research them would be awesome. And maybe say what techs they unlock? And a wz2100-o-pedia. And please solve the Euro zone debt crisis, while you're at it.

Again, I'd like this feature as well. I'd imagine that, when you highlight a certain tech, that a popup box would appear to the right of the research screen, in the following format:

- 1st, the tech's description, as determined in resstrings.txt (if said description is present that is)
- 2nd, what components, structures, and upgrades the tech unlocks
- and finally, what other techs this tech makes available for research, along with what other techs are required to make said tech available

For example, highlighting the Engineering tech would give the player the following description:

Research Breakthrough Improves Construction Rates
Improved Engineering Techniques
Construction speed +10%
All trucks upgraded automatically
- Upgrades construction speed to 110%
- Unlocks Cyborg: Combat Engineer
Prerequisite for:
- Hardcrete
- Tank Traps
- Cyborg Factory
- Improved Engineering (with Dedicated Synaptic Link Data Analysis)
- Mobile Repair Turret
- Fuel Injection Engine
- Half-Tracked Propulsion
- Flamer

So, yeah, I liked 3.1 a lot until the logjamming killed it for me. I would love unit selecting to be improved, but that's not as important.

Again, this is just one user's opinions. Please feel free to ignore.

Finally, thank you thank you thank you for all the hard work. Overall this is a great game, and one that I can actually play on my linux box, which is the ultimate decider for me.

Well, if you like what you've seen of the version 3.1 series so far (despite the pathfinding issues), then wait until you see what mods some of our fine community members have made for it, including NoQ's Ultimate Scavengers Mod, NoQ's custom Volcanic and Paradise Tilesets, and my own Contingency mod.

[aubergine]

press "," ask all damaged unit to go to repair at medium damage (which cause them to deselect at the same time)
Move the remaining

Ah, I never noticed that shortcut, thanks for sharing! *goes to re-read the keyboard shortcuts*

[aubergine]

and I've never heard of a single rts game out there that uses a pathfinding system that actually "remembers" where units originally came from.

Actually, I'm mid-way through implementing that in an API I'm writing I wanted damaged units to retreat back the way they came rather than in a straight line to base. Will be a couple of months before it's done because I'm doing heaps of other stuff, but just I'd mention that I've already been working hard on that very feature

Also, while I'm on the subject, I'm working on several other things as part of the same API:

* Formations: ability to move in formation / ability to go to formation on arrival
* Put units with highest HP around edges of formation
* Enable units to sneak round terrain features / flanking / etc.

Like I say, it will be some months before it sees light of day, but the "retreat the way you came" stuff is already fairly well developed (albeit in the worlds cruftiest test harness).

[Iluvalar]

press "," ask all damaged unit to go to repair at medium damage (which cause them to deselect at the same time)
Move the remaining

Ah, I never noticed that shortcut, thanks for sharing! *goes to re-read the keyboard shortcuts*

OMG... sometime I do that more than once between 2 pings . It's an necessity.

[Rman Virgil]

.

On log-jamming / PF / PW issues being a deal breaker......

We had a little disussion a couple months ago about just this called "What is Power Without Control".

That discussion also placed this core issue in a comprehensive context that covered the past, the present and the future of this game.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9961&p=111224#p111224

Certainly not the first thread on the topic since 1999. Not by a long shot.

But, besides the comprehensive context, the difference with all other prior threads over the years being that a legit and specific solution, (with a successful current track record) emerged in that above referenced thread.

Here, for convenience, let me reproduce the particular solution links posted in that thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=132171

http://www.quora.com/Algorithms/How-doe ... rithm-work

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/563819-wha ... ding-tech/

http://codeka.com/blogs/index.php/2010/ ... tarcraft-2


.