Stratadrake wrote:Okay, I can see balance being a heated topic (it always is), but doubling up on research was doable in the original retail versions.
It was?
I don't know if it was available here, but such thing is available in Earth 2150, maybe memories got overlapped or something like that.
Anyway, that idea makes sense, the only problem is that other concepts aren't compatible with dynamic research speed.
It could be for example become available for mods via scripting (or as mutator) and don't simply double speed but for example give only smaller boost, like 1.25x or 1.5x of standard speed.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.
Stratadrake wrote:Okay, I can see balance being a heated topic (it always is), but doubling up on research was doable in the original retail versions.
It was?
I don't know if it was available here, but such thing is available in Earth 2150, maybe memories got overlapped or something like that.
Anyway, that idea makes sense, the only problem is that other concepts aren't compatible with dynamic research speed.
It could be for example become available for mods via scripting (or as mutator) and don't simply double speed but for example give only smaller boost, like 1.25x or 1.5x of standard speed.
In NRS and probably my future mod, it's possible to build speedlabs that are expensive but go faster. It's the same kind of idea.
However, it will be impossible in the vanilla dataset. The reason is the research progression speed which is not constant at all. Early researches are extremely valuable and while the time go by, the research become less important. this mean that there would be an obvious threshold instead of a simple option all game long. Everybody would "speed until synaptic mk1" or another target... Everything before would be stupid to not speed and everything after would be stupid to speed.
Iluvalar, personally I would like cooperation possibility (also for allies) instead of another structure.
Although it could for example require some additional research to enable it, so maybe it could even blend into default research tree, but available very late in game (so it wouldn't make difference for most of time and make no difference for most important part - beginning).
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.
Emdek wrote:Iluvalar, personally I would like cooperation possibility (also for allies) instead of another structure.
Although it could for example require some additional research to enable it, so maybe it could even blend into default research tree, but available very late in game (so it wouldn't make difference for most of time and make no difference for most important part - beginning).
The result in the exact same.
In NRS, I could build a speed lab, and you would send me money so I can keep researching at double/triple speed.
Positioning potentially game breaking research after the EMP mortar is an interesting concept .
Iluvalar, yeah, result is the same (research speed increase), but then we don't need another structure etc.
But wait, it wouldn't be the same, unless allies could share such structure, if we would allow to let span one research on multiple labs of more than one ally.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.
aubergine wrote:I guess the timing was altered because the full animation takes too long?
You know how railguns don't have any muzzle flashes?
GaussFiring.gif
THAT is what the top half of texturepage 22 is for. That is what they are (and always were) intended to look like, you just can't see it because their playback rates are totally broken. Look at the PIE files themselves:
16 frames, framesize 32x41, okay ... but playback rate 1 millisecond per frame?
The animation rendering actually works (at least it did in retail 1.10) provided you specify the right values, but none of the PIE files do. Totally broken. Totally fixable. And totally more awesome if fixed.
How do you enable this in warzone? I tried changing the 1 to 20 then 50 then 100 and it made no difference, so how do you do it?
Paul wrote:How do you enable this in warzone? I tried changing the 1 to 20 then 50 then 100 and it made no difference, so how do you do it?
Heck, I slowed the game speed down to 0.01 and the animations were still not rendered, even though at THAT speed even a 1ms framerate should have been easily visible. It is totally a bug; I know from personal experiments that it worked in retail v1.10.
Emdek wrote:Iluvalar, yeah, result is the same (research speed increase), but then we don't need another structure etc.
But wait, it wouldn't be the same, unless allies could share such structure, if we would allow to let span one research on multiple labs of more than one ally.
Sorry if it was not clear :
Those speed labs are just enough expensive to cancel the obvious gain from them. They are much more expensive than only 2 normal labs. But we could also make the people pay more for each research it would be the same.
I understand you'd prefer a second player paying the extra fee. But it's pretty much the same anyway...
My point was : It's impossible in vanilla research tree due to the shape of it. (bush tree)
Well, if price makes them unusable then they more like decoration, artificial advantage.
Such thing in any form would be hard to do, for example in case of alliance then it would be more fair if all allies would need to research something to be able to share speed gains... So maybe something like additional module for labs (I don't like idea of adding additional structures ) which would allow after being researched and installed on all of them (or at least those which would share research topic) to allow that. This could be split into some mk upgrades which would increase a bit that speed (but it probably shouldn't go over 1.5x for two labs anyway).
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.
Emdek wrote:Well, if price makes them unusable then they more like decoration, artificial advantage.
I said just enough expensive.
Well, to make a more complete break all production upgrades (research but also engineering and factory) have the kind of special progression function.
For example, if you research at 3x the normal speed, at the end of the third research, you will have the same benefit if you use 3 normal labs for the same 3x price. The only gain you will do is that you will have benefit from 1 research 66% of the time and a 2nd research 33% of the time. That mean that you will actually perform as if you had 4 labs instead of 3. So if we spread that 4rth research price between the 3 research (1/3 more price each), we could offer you a "fair" price for 3x research.
However, the vanilla tech tree is awful on that and we and up researching crappy things most of the time (like automated manufacturing or research upgrade) in order to unlock some very profitable research (33% ROF or 33% power upgrade). So we would end up to speed only the good stuff, and forget the remaining. The speeding labs would be a game of memory (remembering what is best speeded) than a real option most of the time.
Emdek wrote:Anyway, I'm still against adding additional structures.
Can I ask why ?
Here our opinion are slightly different. I against any additional structures that would be recommended. And that also include actual modules the way they are now.
BUT, as long as I can play the entire game without building one of those and without suffering any penality, I'm in favor to add buildings.
Note: Not for this particular "speed research effect", It could probably be fun to increase the heart research speed in the lab. I agree on that.
Iluvalar, we already have plenty (non defensive) structures, including some that could be merged, like HQ and that commanders structure, which could be for example a module for HQ (there is topic for discussion about this idea).
MaNGusT, more like topic hijackers.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.
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