Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

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NoQ
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ »

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:I'd like to conduct a survey on what kinds of strategies and playstyles you guys like to employ from the early-game and onwards.
It's too early for me to reply, for i never played this mod in multiplayer yet.
So far there seems to be a certain balance between mg viper wheels spamming and lc bug halftracks tech on standard 1x1 maps like Startup. I also sense that the importance of build orders is relatively little in this mod, because buildings are built fairly quickly. The balance between tech and production is, on the other hand, more crisp (the technology is more expensive than in standard game), so the choice between running two labs and running three labs is pretty hard.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Iluvalar »

Goth Zagog-Thou wrote:It was the initial attempt to see "how ready" Contingency was for Cam 4.
Contingency is a big sandbox, if shadow wolf ever continue that mod long enough to be decent for competitive play, an awful lot of stuff will be discarded or modified beyond recognition.

@Shadow wolf :
My CRS mod outlines start to be clear in my head, if you can create your stuff so I can make a line of 4-5 weapons that look great together and have the same weapon modifier, i might want to port some of your creation in a set for CRS.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Cook1990 »

in answer to what i do in one of these games, i often try it out on maps such as cockpit and other maps that give you 12 oil in or by your base, once i have that i turtle up and get pepperpot bunkers out asap, using the extra command centors as thier sensors, i then tech up very quickly, upgrading the walls to rocket hardpoints (which i've found to be most effective) most of my weapon research is spent into rockets and arty, this combined with body, power, research time, and wall upgrasdes often means i've got rocket stroms and maxed out howitzers within 50 minutes (yes i play the long game), then from my fortress i send out wreyen-tracked-rocketstrom tanks and just blow everything to bits.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

I dunno, I enjoy the greatly expanded tech tree myself. I really do like Contingency.

I also envision that if NEXUS were alone in the desert for 2 years without any competition that this is what he would do to pass the time. :P
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC »

NoQ wrote:It's too early for me to reply, for i never played this mod in multiplayer yet.
Although I believe that multiplayer data is more reliable than singleplayer data, I'm willing to accept either. Care to post one of your recent gameplay match experiences like I recently did? :wink:
NoQ wrote:So far there seems to be a certain balance between mg viper wheels spamming and lc bug halftracks tech on standard 1x1 maps like Startup.
Not surprising, since Light Cannons are not only tied with Twin Machineguns as the 2nd earliest researchable weapon, but they're the earliest available weapon that's optimized for light vehicles, and fairly good against Tracks and Hardcrete to boot.
NoQ wrote:I also sense that the importance of build orders is relatively little in this mod, because buildings are built fairly quickly.
Are you sure? Deciding whether to go RFC, FRC, FRRC, RFFRC, etc. could still help out depending on one's playstyle or what map they're playing on. For example, when I'd want to truck-rush on a small map with few derricks like Vision, I'd probably want to go for a FRC or FRRC build, since I don't need all that many trucks, but I would like to capture oil ASAP, and get some MG Viper Wheels out quickly.
NoQ wrote:The balance between tech and production is, on the other hand, more crisp (the technology is more expensive than in standard game), so the choice between running two labs and running three labs is pretty hard.
I think I see what you mean, with how quick it is to produce units, and how slow research (especially on critical techs like Synaptic Link Data Analysis or Gas Turbine Generator) can take. A handful of 5 MG Viper Wheels would most likely already cause much panic early-game, so imagine seeing, like, 25, 50, or 100 of them barreling towards you. You'd have to devote some of your power just to fend off these kinds of attacks, hopefully without wasting too much power on units and defenses that end up into piles of junk. While I originally wanted to restrict how quickly players could tech-rush for, say, VTOL Propulsion, I wonder if I should reduce the prices of some turrets (like Medium and Heavy Cannons, or Twin Assault Guns), and possibly other things as well?
Iluvalar wrote:Contingency is a big sandbox, if shadow wolf ever continue that mod long enough to be decent for competitive play, an awful lot of stuff will be discarded or modified beyond recognition.
Even if it becomes underused, or worthless for the vast majority of players, I doubt that I'd want to remove anything unless it's OP beyond any hope of salvaging. Even then, I doubt that I'd add such a thing. :lol2:
Iluvalar wrote:My CRS mod outlines start to be clear in my head, if you can create your stuff so I can make a line of 4-5 weapons that look great together and have the same weapon modifier, i might want to port some of your creation in a set for CRS.
Since Warzone 2100: Contingency was released under the CC-BY-SA license for now (I may switch to, say, CC-BY later on), others are free to use the mod's resources in their projects without needing my permission, so long as they credit me and release their content under a similar open-source license. (I'm personally not a big fan of those that release their content under a license that restricts others' legal ability to create derivatives, such as CC-BY-ND, which is why I personally favor licenses like CC-BY-SA) Although, if you wish to use a different license, then you'll need my explicit permission (much like with how I gave Goth Zagog-Thou permission, even though he's using content that's possibly licensed under something that's incompatable with CC-BY-SA). :wink:
Goth Zagog-Thou wrote:I dunno, I enjoy the greatly expanded tech tree myself. I really do like Contingency.

I also envision that if NEXUS were alone in the desert for 2 years without any competition that this is what he would do to pass the time. :P
:lol2:
That's all I have to say.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ »

Are you sure? Deciding whether to go RFC, FRC, FRRC, RFFRC, etc. could still help out depending on one's playstyle or what map they're playing on.
The difference between FR and RF in standard game is making first truck 30 seconds earlier vs. starting research 30 seconds earlier. This is compared to around 100 seconds of "rush distance" (distance between bases, defined as the time it takes for early wheeled units to reach the enemy), so it makes quite a difference of your truck (or tank) being delayed by 30% of a map. In Contingency, the delays caused by changing construction order are several times smaller due to faster construction speed of trucks. But the size of the map didn't change much. This could have been explained as "this mod makes all maps several times larger", but in fact it doesn't, because research is less important due to high costs (so teching is less effective than rushing, even though its effectiveness increases with the map size). Thus, it just decreases the importance of build orders.
truck-rush on a small map with few derricks like Vision
Vision is a large map. It has rush distance of around 2:30, compared to 1:30 of Startup.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Iluvalar »

@SW : You misunderstood me.

Just forget about that, it was a bit too fast...
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Tyzler »

There needs to be some one to program a AI that will user the vast majority of the tech in this.

So far of the 3 AI's that I have tried nullbot is the best but still limits it's self to weapons that are in the original.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by aubergine »

@Shadow - In another topic, the idea of factions was raised. I believe such a feature could be implemented in same way as, and in conjunction with, "research eras" or "tier limiting".

There could be 3 factions (initially):

* The Project
* New Paradigm
* The Collective

You'd choose your faction via a research item early in the game, and maybe get the chance to choose an additional faction each time you go up a tech era/tier?

Overall, the research tree would be the same for each faction. But each faction would gain certain bonus techs unique to that faction, which would give them a specific edge over the other two factions.

To get to the bonus tech, several faction-specific techs would need researching. So teams would have to decide whether each player chooses a different faction to get the full range of bonus techs but take longer to get them, or all choose same faction to get just one set of bonus techs but achieve it quicker.

Ah, there's the problem: Player A researches faction and all their allies end up being same faction as tech is given to all of them. WZ would have to provide some way of saying "don't share faction choice techs with allies"...
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

Hang on, what content am I using that is licence-incompatible? Just read that and I was like 'huh?!' I haven't used anything that isn't GPL. :annoyed:
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ »

Tyzler wrote:There needs to be some one to program a AI that will user the vast majority of the tech in this.

So far of the 3 AI's that I have tried nullbot is the best but still limits it's self to weapons that are in the original.
Mentioned in the first message.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by NoQ »

By the way, updated it to v1.0.

It now includes the rocket personality, which means it covers most of the Contingency technologies now, thus 1.0. I will also stop making separate release cycle for Contingency AI from now on, so the next version will be just called "v1.34" rather than "v1.34-v1.1".

I also added four fixed-personality AIs (MG/Laser, Flame/Laser, Cannons/Railguns and Rockets/Missiles); they are inside the same AI package (i'm not splitting them into -extras, because #3147 is causes less troubles here, because the AIs bundled with the game are sort of useless anyway, so you will most likely not want to pick them ... right?). So now you can make an AI tournament (:

There were some Turtle AI fixes, but it's still pretty green.
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Rman Virgil »

==========>

In my never ending quest to apply battlefield command dynamics to WZ MP GPMs (an area of great deficiency, great promise - it's in the source - and unique to WZ in the RTS genre) I came across the following which has a multifold relevance to this mod... (me thinks):

Contingency Theory which posits, in brief, that the appropriate and most effective style of leadership (or command) is contingent on the requirements of the particular situation. In other words - there is NO one size that fits all prevailing conditions.

You can begin to go into greater depth here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingency_theory
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by iap »

Oh, I just call it "Living with Open shoe lace" (In hebrew it sounds much better, I think) :P
(Sorry, OT)
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Re: Warzone 2100: Contingency (Beta now released)

Post by Rman Virgil »

iap wrote:Oh, I just call it "Living with Open shoe lace" (In hebrew it sounds much better, I think) :P
(Sorry, OT)
:lol2:
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