Commanders: Original Vision, Crippled Default, Future ?

[Rman Virgil]

.

It may be too soon to actually do this but not too soon consider the mechanics of organizing our concise list of proposed Commander changes per Emdek's wise proviso.

For now I propose that as we continue anyone is free to make a list and I will put it in one of the reserved posts at the top of the thread. We'll revise and version the changes as we go along as the merits of each proposed change is filtered through the crucible of robust analysis for viabilty and total integration.

This method itself is merely a proposal and by no means written in stone. You got something you think will work better - don't hesitate to spell it out here and if it comes out the other side of the aforementioned crucible like a well tempered samurai sword, then it will simply be made so. That's how we roll.

Be back tomorrow. Still need to post past ref material worth reviewing as we proceed.

- Regards, Rman.
.

-

[Emdek]

OK, then I'll repost (no exact copy, reworded from memory) the rest of my commanders related ideas (some of them built on top of input from others).

For me (mainly from campaign point of view - I should add that to signature perhaps, since I'm repeating this sentence very often ) the main issue with commanders (except from clear bugs, like #2991 or #3062) is their bad attitude to artillery (mentioned in my previous post).
I see two possible solutions:

• simply don't let them to unassign from list when retreating (which can lead to losing them, as one unit sitting near remote repair facility is easy target or at least making the rest of artillery support weaker too, when we forget to reattach it);
• give commander like capabilities to sensor units after researching commander module.

There was also some discussion about possible limits for artillery units (especially if choosing second case), to make it more consistent (but then we have issue of unlimited assigning to sensor towers).
And that idea has also option that commander features could be given to sensors only after creating CRC building.

Apart from above, if we are going to still have CRC then it should do what description states and when we don't have it commanders should stop auto targeting (making them stop targeting at all, including manual one or clear group would be too harsh, since sensors targeting doesn't require that and grouping is available from start - that Ctrl+number based).
I'm unsure if we should for example remove building creation requirement for researching them, since that is consistent with requirements to research new cyborgs (you need to have cyborgs factory first) etc. But for sure that leads in campaign to hack (or maybe that was bug in logic only?) that allows to create CRC on one away mission (that one where we get their technology to research) and bypass limit disallowing to build base structures on away missions to research and build them before that mission ends instead of next one.

[aubergine]

While end-users only get to interact with 10 droid groups (0-9) the game itself can handle many more.

So why not have it so that when a sensor or commander droid is produced, a new group (outside the range of those that the human can select) is created and the droid automatically put in to that group. When units are assigned to it, they also get added to the group.

Note: This would require a droid to have an additional "leaderGroup" property or something like that, so that human player could still assign the group of droids to a normal group.

Anyway, this means that the assignment is now tracked via an .internalGroup property of the droids.

When a droid goes for repairs, it remains assigned -- it remains in the .leaderGroup associated with it's sensor/commander droid.

The sensor/commander, when wanting to do something with it's followers, looks at their DACTION and decides whether they are able to play or not.

The DACTIONS for repairs are quite specific and easily to collate: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/page ... eId=360512

So if a leader is selected, before marking the followers as selected it checks their DACTION and ignores any that are being repaired/rearmed. Likewise, when the leader wants it's followers to move to a new location, or attack some target, it does the same check and only communicates with those that aren't getting repaired/rearmed.

This way, when a droid goes of for repairs, it remains in the group - it remains assigned to the commander or sensor. And once it's been repaired, it starts receiving commands from it's leader again and gets back in to the action.

This approach would have benefits in the JS API too - it would mean that AI scripters could enumGroup(sensorOrCommander.leaderGroup) to get a list of all units assigned to the sensor or commander.

In turn, this would open a door to allowing "programs" to be applied to sensors / commanders, little javascript brains for them.

[Rman Virgil]

.

I'll be back this evening to comment on the last few insightful suggestions, use the last Reserved slot above to post some historical Commander Enhancement References along with working provisos and I will also extract what has so far been offered into the initial concise list of proposed change then put that into the second reserved slot at the top (of course subject to revision for the foreseeable future).

I will also share a WZ Creator anecdote relevant to these proceedings.

By now it should be common knowledge that the inspirations for the WZ 2100 world & backstory were a mashup of 2 hugely successful movie franchises; the franchises that began with the "Terminator" & "Roadwarrior" movies.

Well Commanders also had a source inspiration and I believe it will help better understand in straightfoward terms (even simple, you could say) the core player experience Pumpkin designers were striving for with this innovative contribution to the RTS genre's set of stock GPMs. In the case of Commanders the inspiration was not cinnema but rather a classic of SF literature.....

Sorry for the delay. Must catch-up with a host of other commitments - including another game project I got involved with early last year (nothing to do with WZ or RTS... it's a VR Game.)

I leave it there till this evening.

- Regards, RV.
.

[Emdek]

By now it should be common knowledge that the inspirations for the WZ 2100 world & backstory were a mashup of 2 hugely successful movie franchises; the franchises that began with the "Terminator" & "Roadwarrior" movies.

This one "Roadwarrior"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max_2

[aubergine]

Mad max series = inspiration for scavengers and the sort of post-collapse environment with people fighting over dog food and oil.

[Emdek]

Yes, that I know (but I've seen third one only...), I only wanted to be sure, as this is not unique title (I would not ask if it would have "Mad Max" along it).

[aubergine]

We need to have a map called the Thuderdome.

[effigy]

We need to have a map called the Thuderdome.

I know a FPS with one

[Rman Virgil]

.


* @Emdek: The inspiration began with the first movie in the series Mad Max.

* Posted a series of historical refs for proposed enhancements up top framed in a 3 part catagorical breakdown.

* When we talked with WZ Creators every topic filtered through the lens of the game. Not just programming, GPMs, A.I., UI design, etc. but also books, movies, old games and even subjects like world lit, history, philosophy, art, politics, religion, linguistics, many of the sciences, humor and so on. In short, nothing was off limits or off topic.

It was during one of those discussions that the inspiration for Commanders and their relationship to the player came out.

The character of Ender Wiggins from Orson Scott Card's first novel in the Ender series called "Ender's Game". If any one is interested in getting into more details about this influence, go right ahead and initiate it. We'll follow. It is a rich vein of insight into Commanders visionary design origins.

* NEXT - I'll get on the initial extraction & concise listing from the current suggested enhancement proposals after I reflect a little more on them & also comment briefly on this end. Then to the second slot on the front end in clean, muscular, language.

.

[Emdek]

Mad Max is for sure great inspiration source, even last one part alone could be enough.

[aubergine]

So, let me get this right...

The player is supposed to be like Ender's commander, commander units are to be like Ender, and programs the commander can run are to be like Jane?

Would it not be better to shake this up a bit and treat the human player as Ender, commander units as instances of Jane, and programs as things Ender can ask Jane to do?

[Emdek]

If we are comparing to movies, then what about things like Bishop (and other models) in Aliens series?

[Rman Virgil]

So, let me get this right...

The player is supposed to be like Ender's commander, commander units are to be like Ender, and programs the commander can run are to be like Jane?

Would it not be better to shake this up a bit and treat the human player as Ender, commander units as instances of Jane, and programs as things Ender can ask Jane to do?

My bad, I was not clear. The inspiration was indeed the Player as Ender.

@Emdek: I never spoke about the "Aliens" franchise of movies with any members of the Pumpkin Team. However, in any sequel (like Goth's CAM 4) anything can inspire. Indeed, "Aliens" was an inspiration for the CAM I worked on for the WZ 2200 Project and also used them when I created the "War School" map-mod utilizing XANAX's cool set of Mechs, re-booted borgs, totally alien structs and a bunch of new scav units.

- RV

[Emdek]

Rman Virgil, I was speaking about comparing current ones, but true, I've similar plans / ideas for next campaigns too.