why aren't the models or textures being used?

[crux]

I noticed that there are some really awesome work being done but from what I can tell, not one of them have actually been used by the development branch (trunk) of this project.

is there a valid explanation for this?
it seems wrong for people to do awesome stuff but it is sitting in the forums and not in game!

this is excellent quality!

come on devs put it in the game as a official mod!

[Zarel]

The most important reason is that we don't know how they would be used. The development branch isn't a place to throw in anything and everything, but a branch that's being prepared to be the next version of Warzone. Mechs would not be able to go into Warzone until they have found themselves a niche, and have been fleshed-out and balanced.

(The lack of teamcoloring also makes integration a bit difficult.)

If these problems were addressed, we would love to see them in-game.

[crux]

The most important reason is that we don't know how they would be used. The development branch isn't a place to throw in anything and everything, but a branch that's being prepared to be the next version of Warzone. Mechs would not be able to go into Warzone until they have found themselves a niche, and have been fleshed-out and balanced.

(The lack of teamcoloring also makes integration a bit difficult.)

If these problems were addressed, we would love to see them in-game.

teamcoloring -- http://developer.wz2100.net/ticket/851

all the pieces are scattered all around, just nobody is putting them together.
I also don't think you need to balance a mod, since NTW isn't balanced at all but that is still part of trunk and all the betas as well.
it would made a great marketing point, getting more people to join up.

[Zarel]

Oh, I didn't see the word "mod".

I think simply adding mechs is a bit minor for a mod. I've been considering creating some sort of "new artwork" mod... if you can consolidate the artwork from a lot of different artists, and get their permission, we could add something like that.

[Olrox]

Hmmm, controversial things aren't the right ones to be included in the standard versions. I mean, I don't like those mechs as they are! They look weird and out of place for me.
Such additions must be carefully evaluated, and, as Zarel pointed out, they must be really needed. Adding things that may alter the balance should be accompanied of the addition of things that make up for those alterations, at least.

The main creators of the mod should be concerned about popularization, and about convincing the staff that it is really worthy of being added to any releases, I think. :rolleyes:

[Per]

all the pieces are scattered all around, just nobody is putting them together.

I'm glad you are offering to help.

[Rman Virgil]

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all the pieces are scattered all around, just nobody is putting them together.

I'm glad you are offering to help.

Putting them all together is a lot of work. It would take someone committed to doing just that to get it done.

One way to go about it would be to have collected Mod / Map download web pages with brief descriptions and evaluations instead forum thread attachments hither and yon. (Again, requires a commitment of effort, time and resources to happen.) This approach has been very successful early on in the history of this game.

With that kind of d/l web page set-up, if a Mod's / Map's popularity is exceedingly obvious (various straightforward metrics can be used to gauge that) then this could be a criteria or segue to make it part of the official game distro package. This is not the same as merging with the base game but still a quite notable accomplishment. Thinking strictly in terms of merging with the base game is very much over stated as the sole worthy way of contributing to the game's evolution, IMHO. Many a mod to other games have exceeded the popularity of the original game and gone on to stand apart as a singular gaming experience.

Regards, RV
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[crux]

all the pieces are scattered all around, just nobody is putting them together.

I'm glad you are offering to help.

.
Putting them all together is a lot of work. It would take someone committed to doing just that to get it done.

One way to go about it would be to have collected Mod / Map download web pages with brief descriptions and evaluations instead forum thread attachments hither and yon. (Again, requires a commitment of effort, time and resources to happen.) This approach has been very successful early on in the history of this game.

With that kind of d/l web page set-up, if a Mod's / Map's popularity is exceedingly obvious (various straightforward metrics can be used to gauge that) then this could be a criteria or segue to make it part of the official game distro package. This is not the same as merging with the base game but still a quite notable accomplishment. Thinking strictly in terms of merging with the base game is very much over stated as the sole worthy way of contributing to the game's evolution, IMHO. Many a mod to other games have exceeded the popularity of the original game and gone on to stand apart as a singular gaming experience.

Regards, RV
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I don't think it is possible with the forum software you are using.
This is what needs to be done http://www.moddb.com/mods/ntw
something along those lines

Are you guys open to running different software so we can do something like that?

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Nice Mech but hows the anime of them walking ? That was a big problem way back when, I used to have a Star War mod that someone did way back when the AT-AT's didnt really walk, but the AT-ST did they were built on borgs.

As for adding something to the game and making sure its balanced thats not really that hard to do if you know the tech tree, and want it in the game we were doing that with 1.12 and we didnt even have the source code at the time. What ever happened to the Landmines ? or some of the other things we came up with back then ?


4nE

[Rman Virgil]

As for adding something to the game and making sure its balanced thats not really that hard to do if you know the tech tree, and want it in the game we were doing that with 1.12 and we didnt even have the source code at the time. What ever happened to the Landmines ? or some of the other things we came up with back then ?


4nE

Hey 4nE.

The "NTW" mod by Delphinio (included in the Distro of the current version of WZ by this project) is an aggregation of Mods from our time that includes bits from v.1.11, v.1.12, LOD, A.I. Boost, Citadel Elite, Grim's GFX Mod, etc.... However, it could use a fair bit more attention in the area of Balance... IMHO. Maybe it's just me but I don't think achieving balance with modifications to the game's GPMs is all that easy, no matter how well you understand the tech-research tree, and I also think it's an on-going process. In that sense I can thoroughly relate to Zarel's continuous balancing work with the base game. In my WS Complex Mod (changes GFX, GPMs, A.I. & Mapping... not just one of those) it is the most time consuming aspect and most challenging all across the board. But being a very strong MP player certainly makes a huge difference and that you were /are - in addition to your high caliber mapping, natch.

Regards, RV

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[RBL-4NiK8r]

As for adding something to the game and making sure its balanced thats not really that hard to do if you know the tech tree, and want it in the game we were doing that with 1.12 and we didnt even have the source code at the time. What ever happened to the Landmines ? or some of the other things we came up with back then ?


4nE

Hey 4nE.

The "NTW" mod by Delphinio (included in the Distro of the current version of WZ by this project) is an aggregation of Mods from our time that includes bits from v.1.11, v.1.12, LOD, A.I. Boost, Citadel Elite, Grim's GFX Mod, etc.... However, it could use a fair bit more attention in the area of Balance... IMHO. Maybe it's just me but I don't think achieving balance with modifications to the game's GPMs is all that easy, no matter how well you understand the tech-research tree, and I also think it's an on-going process. In that sense I can thoroughly relate to Zarel's continuous balancing work with the base game. In my WS Complex Mod (changes GFX, GPMs, A.I. & Mapping... not just one of those) it is the most time consuming aspect and most challenging all across the board. But being a very strong MP player certainly makes a huge difference and that you were /are - in addition to your high caliber mapping, natch.

Regards, RV

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Hey RJ I used to know the tech tree very well, so so now, but keep in mind back in the day alot of my balancing came from the fact that I also know my weapon systems in real life, and thats not changed to much in the past 10 years. I got some things to look at on this, but right now most of its been T1, but a good thing to look at is something like Cluster Bombs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8 ... re=related in game you get like 3 bombs, and its kind of dumb looking, BUT if you go back to 1.12 they had like 50 bomblets that did a little bit of damage, and had a 20-30% chance to hit target so they went all over the place and also give them some good splash damage, and a little flame damage and you got a weapon that looks and acts like the real thing.

Oh and you dont even what me to get into the fights Strata and me used to get into on weapons, and things he did, I recall one time he took walls defence up so much nothing could kill them in T1 or T2 and he thought it was a good thing. He did great work but had no clue about MP games or how somethings cant be done, oh but I will always love him for his idea on getting landmines into the game, so many things could have been done with this game, and should have been by now.


4nE

[Rman Virgil]

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Hey 4nE.... Saw your other post as well. Changes. Glad to hear your on the other side, the better side, of all that seems like.

Sounds like Coyote is getting you set with 32EW to make some maps. That's cool. You might wanna take a look at the New Map Editor Flail13 released less than a week ago - built from the ground up. I thinks it's a vast improvement over EW - though if your used to EW it's fine maps made with run just fine in the current binaries. If your interested you find Flail13's New map Editor in the Maps & Mods BB. You may even see somethings to suggest to Flail13.

Strata was awesome... he did have that one Achilles heel - never played enough MP against strong players. Nonetheless, I too feel forever grateful to Strata's efforts. He's still around but no longer doing any programming. Mostly focused on his art work and writing last I heard. One of the few creators in the community who was really good at all those very different disciplines. BTW - you may or may not already know.... Cowboy started his own successful business after he finished at Cal Tech - "Bit Armory", it's called. Lot of the old crew have gone on to be very successful in RL - you wouldn't believe how related their fields stemmed from their involvement with WZ. Amazing.

I won't get into any details here but the development perspectives are different than they were for the first 5 years of the game. You might wanna take a gander at the Project wiki to see for yourself how so.

Tech tree and balance has changed some since v.1.10. You might find Zarel's excellent WZ Guide intriguing and you can see the changes as well before you play MP with the new binary. Zarel's guide and work is the best of it's kind over the last 10 years, IMHO.

I'd very much be interested in what you think of the current balance changes with your deep background and MP experience....

There are some strong MPers around - you can find them on the project IRC channel - funny thing is many rediscovered the successful tacs and strats you and your crew where using back in 99-2000.

Looking forward to whatever mapping you get to do over the next 6 weeks of winter.

Cheers, RV
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[lunarmachiavelli]

I used to fantasize a lot about a mech-based verson of WZ2100. You could have a simple chicken legs option for the small bodies with just single turret on top like any other tank. But the real fun would be in the added possibilities for unit design and versatility for giving the larger mechs two or even three weapon options.

[Olrox]

I used to fantasize a lot about a mech-based verson of WZ2100. You could have a simple chicken legs option for the small bodies with just single turret on top like any other tank. But the real fun would be in the added possibilities for unit design and versatility for giving the larger mechs two or even three weapon options.

That can be achieved with proper animation - afaik, your can add more than 3 turrets on a model. But it would get boring fast, IMO. Research is not quite *slow*, and if you've got units that aggregate too much value, you might very well end up having obsolete weapons because it took too long to produce the unit.

Maybe on the far future I can think more about creating *different* things for warzone, but right now I think it's more secure to improve what we already have, so that those possible new models can be done with a good level of detail and won't look out of place amidst the other models.

I like mechs, but much prefer the style of Front Mission's Wanzers. Those are my prefered, no doubt - definetely fit their "Walking Panzer" name, as they look just like walking tanks.

~Olrox

[Zarax]

An alternate solution would be to have mechs using custom weapons like VTOLs.

Having a mech behaving like a designable "super heavy cyborg" using multiple cyborg grade weapons could create an unit that both fits an acceptable idea of cyborg platform and is not overpowered.