How should I deal with bad suggestions?

[Zarel]

Hey, guys.

Currently, when I see a suggestion that's unlikely to be implemented, I usually just say "No" outright - on the assumption that the suggester would rather hear some sort of response than absolute silence. I'm also rather direct with my other feedback - when I see something that looks good, I'll say so; if I see something that needs improvement and I have some idea of how it could be improved, I'll say so as well.

I'm worried that I might be coming off the wrong way, though.

So here's my question, forumdwellers: Should I stop saying anything negative at all? I suppose I could just ignore suggestions I dislike, instead of criticizing them. Would that be better? I've tried to seem friendlier and all that for around a year now, but I'm still getting feedback that I'm being a bit rude at times, so here's the only other option I could think of...

Thanks, guys.

[dmkp]

Just be nicer about it.

[Zarel]

Just be nicer about it.

I've tried.

As my post mentions: "I've tried to seem friendlier and all that for around a year now, but I'm still getting feedback that I'm being a bit rude at times, so here's the only other option I could think of..."

So while trying to be nicer about it isn't getting anywhere, I figured I'd try a different approach.

[MaNGusT]

...

Say the truth... I think that it's better than silence...

[Dalton]

I say keep doing what your doing being direct in my mind is better.

[Berg]

Say the truth is best..
Do not belittle the suggestion just say your feelings on it..eg: Your suggestion is noted but I feel its sucks!...the word sucks can be replaced with less aggressive words ,overpowered, hard to code, not to the benefit of the game, will destroy balance, will not enhance game play.... There are so many ways to reject without belittling.
Trouble with rejection nearly all folks take it badly so its a no win senario..
Not replying can be as bad as saying it sucks.
Good ideas are easy to reply to!
Also when you have rejected ideas do not respond further as it ends up in a flaming match.

[dmkp]

Yeah don't want to put people off. Just be polite.

[Corporal Punishment]

At least with me, it's not with suggestions being rejected in itself or being rejected straightforward. The point is rather i would like to know why they are rejected. It would make me (other folks as well, i believe) fell better if you could just give some explanation as to why you deem a suggestion bad. Stating "It crashes balance." or "Too hard to implement." just reads like a cheap disguise for "I don't like it, stfu!" Now, i do not ask for a detailed report about how implementing any suggestion would affect game mechanics, neither am i capable of understanding lengthly lectures about coding in C. But just give a two sentence comment outlining your issue with the original suggestion. This might also give forum members a better understanding on what can and can not be done and lead to fewer bad suggestions in the long run.

[ClockWork]

Well Zarel, to anyone else, it may be rude, but you are working hard on the game, along with other developers and testers. Sure, there may be some negative feedback, but at least your doing this out of your own time. What would be neat though, is if developers made a one day log about the stuff they do. Of course, they could omit certain things, but it could let us forum dwellers see just what you guys go through, and maybe we could understand each other a bit.

As for dealing with a bad suggestion…well, all I can think of is saying, “please understand…” or “thank you, but…” however…the thing I like about you, is that not only are you recognizable by your avy, (shazah!) but if there really is a horrible, horrible idea, you tend to get the last word in. From what I’ve observed, you are pretty straight forward, and…even made me cry when I pointed out the panther was obsolete to the mantis in every way. I had gotten so up set, that I changed my avatar for a couple days till I felt better emotionally. Now when I think about it, I just tend to laugh. I may almost be old enough to drink, but I’m still a kid at heart.

But that is something to keep in mind though, there are more younger folk that may think they have some pretty awesome ideas; probably spent days trying to think of it. But then, it just gets blasted away…along with the time they poured their little hearts into something they had thought would be a hit.

It would defiantly be a long chore to explain to everybody’s suggestions as to why they may be bad…but, what can you do? There is so much to do, in so little time. What would be really good, is if you had a step-by-step document telling, and showing by pics just how models are made, or how to fix and create all the other stuff. Heck, it would be nice if there was a guide showing by view, and text what exactly everything does. Then you could say, “have fun! Just be sure to do so-and-so.” yeah…don’t know if any of this helps much, but that’s my thoughts.

oh! last minute thoughts: smilys; they tend to ease things. like if I tell some one to "shut up," it wouldn’t bold so well. but, if I said "shut up " it seems a little different...I think.

[Terminator]

Only truth, no matter how ugly it is...for example : "..Terminator, Your Commander's Idea - is f...ing bullshit..".
This kind of answer will enforce me to create a better ideas or leave it. I dont bother about rudeness in forums.

Or if you see a person at a first time, so just....." I'm sorry, Your Ideas(suggestion) is not a priority in our Project." or something like that, if a person smart enough He will read "between the lines", if not , so You won't be rude with him.

IMHO

[KukY]

Be direct.
I am personaly annoyed with your tries to be friendly.
And I like to see a good fight on forums.

[dragonflythecat]

The simplest way to handle this decision is to explain to the individual exactly why their suggestion can not be implemented - as one adult talking to another adult - it will take more time than just "No" but you will get fewer negative feedback posts from users if you can take the time to do this way - Right now you are just a name on a computer screen for most of the users of this forum.

How much confidence do you have in names you see on a computer screen?

So actually, no one takes you serious - it isn't surprising, since a few of us have been coming at you pretty hard lately in the Posts - if we thought you wouldn't learn from this experience, we wouldn't waste our time trying to share it with you - meaning the entire Development Team - but by that same token you should realize that when you are singled out in the Post it is because you are the most vocal of the Development Team but with few exceptions, all posted comments of all current forum users are targeted at the entire Development Team - not you alone.

I find it is a little hard to get all worked up and violent over just a name on a computer screen...

[virgilglyph]

.

My 2 cents -

~ I think a common thread for all of us here, in addition to the obvious interest in the game WZ 2100, is to learn and have fun at it.

~ Any communication that promotes or facilitates learning is to the good.

~ Language is a powerful force - for good or ill. Language use can promote learning or it can derail or stymie it.

~ Disagreeing can be a powerful learning experience and impetus to lasting creative breakthroughs to the extent it does not devolve into purely disagreeably ego clashes.

~ You may have heard the following quote by Abraham Lincoln:

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." - Abraham Lincoln

One of the most common variations that applies here:

"You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time."

~ I hold the forgoing as precepts a good leader has to be mindful of and consistently effective in applying for an organization or community or project to prosper - in cyberspace or brick 'n mortar. The challenges to achieving this in cyberspace on a FOSS project can be greater than the same faced in the world of brick 'n mortar simply because the incentives and rewards to succeed don't invoke $$ upfront.

~ A good leader is honest, clearly decisive, respectful of differences in POV, brave, can admit fallibility and make course corrections when evidence calls for it in a straightforward and graceful manner especially when giving credit to others. A deft wit and sense of humor can be potent assets in all of this.

~ Overall, I believe Zarel (and other vocal developers) are on the right track in all these considerations. 'Course there's always room for improvement in any activity but that's just the nature of the beast.

Regards, VG
.

[Zarel]

Be direct.
I am personaly annoyed with your tries to be friendly.
And I like to see a good fight on forums.

...sarcasm?

[KenAlcock]

@Zarel

Firstly, I know the job that the developers do is tough. Warzone is an old code base--add-ons on top of other add-ons. A redesign is overdue, but quite unlikely since this is an open source, free software project. And I assume (and sincerely hope) that all the developers have lives away from your day jobs and from this game so you don't end up going postal.

I'm going to suggest some things I've picked up across my IT career, which should perhaps be worked into this forum's rules on decorum on how ideas and suggestions should be balanced against what is actually feasible. And I believe everyone should be held accountable, and should hold everyone else accountable (including developers and moderators), to following decorum rules that reflect the things I'm going to discuss below.

Terminology Used in the Design Process

Many people get some key words and their meanings confused, which greatly afflicts conversation. So I'm defining some terms here, in order to avoid confusion. These words are centered around business (or IT) projects, but they can also apply to one's personal life.

Vision: A vision is a long term, 20,000 foot view of where you want to go within some field of endeavor. It is more of an ideal, and it does not even pretend to deal with details, obstacles, or inadequacies. However, whether consciously stated or subconsciously implied, a good vision should incorporate and/or suggest one's values.

The Warzone Project needs a Vision statement. This will help frame all conversation. This vision should perhaps be formed with some input from average users, or at the very least those individuals who actively contribute to the project like: mappers, modders, artists, beta testers, active forum users that answer questions not just ask them.

Values: A value is single component of an individual's or group's overarching ethos. Ideally, one's values are always supported by accepting ideas congruent with one's values and rejecting all ideas opposed. Similarly, all goals, objectives, and plans should be aligned with one's values. A vision is an abstract ideal that inculcates one's values. The most well-thought-out plans and clearly stated goals are meaningless, if they are not aligned with one's vision and one's values. (For example, if you value your health, then crash dieting is not an acceptable way to lose weight.)

The Warzone Project needs a Vision statement and a list of values explicitly listed, in their order of priority. This will help frame all conversation. It will also help prioritize conflicting ideas based upon well defined values.

For example I value financial stability, but I value integrity even more, therefore I'm not going to steal someone else's money in order to improve my financial situation. Anyone who has read five or six posts from Zarel, will know that game balance is one his top three Wazone values, if not his top overall value. (However, it would help if Zarel actually took the time to write an article about his Vision for the game and what he feels game balance means.)

Objective or Goal: An objective or a goal is a measurable milestone of accomplishment or achievement within some field of endeavor. One should easily be able to tell if one has met an objective or not. However while an objective or goal is itself well-defined, it does not discuss at all how it will be actually be accomplished.

The Warzone Project could do well to state some goals for each upcoming version, in order to help the community get some idea of what ideas are most relevant at the current time. Other ideas should be shelved in a "parking lot" until they fit better with the project's objectives (which should change from time to time).

Sun Tzu wrote "if I attack my enemy on all sides, he must defend them all equally weak". If the Warzone Project tries to accomplish too many objectives at once, nothing will be done well.

Idea: An idea is an original thought that is more creative than substantive. It is a skeleton, not an entire organism. An idea, and all of its implications, has not been thought through. It's just what pops into someone's mind inspired by some stimuli or observation. An idea is something that will require more thought later; it is something to ruminate on, to try out, to explore, or to experiment with.

One problem that occurs everywhere in the world, not just on in the Warzone Project, is that ideas tend to get squashed too early and too harshly. Such overkill, tends to foster an environment where people cease bringing forth ideas. Not all ideas are feasible, in fact most will not be. It's a numbers game where the more ideas you allow to be expressed, the more bad ones you will hear. However, the more ideas you allow to be expressed, the more good ones you will hear too. If only one idea in ten is a good one, then you need to be willing and open to hearing 10 times as many ideas. It goes with the territiory.

Concept: A concept is more substantive than creative; it is more like a finished proposal incorporating one or more original ideas but also addressing the relevant objectives identified to solve the problem that one or more ideas intended to solve or alleviate. So a concept puts meat on the bones of our skeleton, but not always the skin or hair, and some internal organs might be missing as well. In other words, all of the details are not yet hammered out.

In the Warzone project, developers must be involved in fleshing out ideas, and sometimes also in flushing out ideas. But this must be done in a collaborative way with the users who choose participate in the project. If an idea needs to be flushed, simply explain why. If it needs to be postponed until is is more feasible, state that as well. If the project has a clearly stated Vision and Values, and a proposed idea goes against those, cite that in the rationale for rejecting an idea. If this is done consistently, then people will eventually get it, without getting rubbed the wrong way.

Brainstorming: Brainstorming is about sharing creative ideas (as defined above), no matter how well thought out , how incompletely thought out, or how outlandish any of the ideas might be. The first rule in brainstorming is never criticize an idea, period. Don't do it ever, you will never win. If you criticize, then you will potentially deny yourself any future good ideas from the same source. However, one of the other, equally important, rules of brainstorming is never agree or disagree to implement an idea during brainstorming. The only questions that should be asked are to clarify the idea or to encourage adding more creativity to it.

Brainstorming is only about is getting ideas out in the open and letting people talk about them creatively. If you are in a decision maker's role, then you need to be cautious so as to encourage the creative process, not to stifle it. If you don't have something encouraging to say, save it for a later exercise.

Reuminate, Percolate, Ponder: I don't have some business-savvy-catch-phrase for you here, but it comes after brainstorming. And it usually comes from people discussing the ins and out, and ups and downs, of all the ideas brought forth during brainstorming. Why wouldn't this work? How would that work? What would that break? No decisions are made here, just ideas get kicked around and turned upside down. This is where people can get their feelings hurt a little. But it's an important part of the design process. If an idea cannot stand up to scrutiny, then it is most likely not a feasible idea.

One of the pitfalls of this part of the development process is developers often get married to their previous designs so much that they stop looking for new and better ways to do something. In short, they get jaded. Sometimes the nature of the project is such that the developer is helpless to effect a proposed change. In the Warzone project, the developers need to police each other to keep all your collective spirits up and to be open to new and innovative ideas. Don't let yourselves become jaded as it will carry through in your conversations with users.

Sift, Sort, Priortize--Making Decisions:
After ideas are suggested and kicked around, eventually someone or some group has to make a decision, and ideas need to be prioritized. Sometimes this is done in a formal plan. Most companies do this after conducting a Feasibility Study. and it follows the golden rule, the one that states: "he who has the gold (funds the project), makes the rules".

Plan: A plan is a commitment to do a quantified amount of detailed work in a certain amount of time. A good plan involves two initial phases: scoping and analysis. Scoping sets forth exactly what ideas will be looked at and analysis determines what ideas will be implemented. After these two phases, the scope of the plan is fixed for the remainder of its execution, unless some sort of formal change control is agreed to (usually to handle unforeseen substantial issues). A plan deals with all the details of how ideas will be implemented and when they will be implemented. Good plans have a well-defined scope, a detailed work breakdown structure, and a well defined time line with due dates for all deliverables. A good plan also manages any potential risks with a risk mitigation and contingency plan. If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

For the Warzone Project, the decision making and planning are strictly the domain of the developers, period. The only balance against this is that if the developers build a game no one enjoys, then it will be somewhat a fruitless endeavor and the project will eventually die. The average user must come to grips with this (or learn how to code and become a developer).

Ideas how to handle this better

In another thread, someone suggested different subforums for idea based upon the merits of an idea. I would suggest that the Ideas and Suggestions forum is the place for brainstorming. Each thread should be limited to one idea or a few closely related ideas. But let people discuss ideas creatively. Let them dream big there. In fact the developers should dream along with the users. But nothing should be committed to or rejected in that forum.

The development team should then promote ideas from the Ideas and Suugestions forum to another forum perhaps called Working Concepts (or some other more meaningful name). Here the development team is considering an idea, scrutinizing it, and looking for any obstacles to implementing it. And people need to know that the idea is going to get the hell beat out if it in the process. What remains standing after such scrunity will most likely get worked into the next set of objectives for the Warzone project.

The development team should also consider a "Parking Lot" forum to park ideas that are good, but that perhaps need to be pushed out to a future version, or until other objectives are met first.

As to ideas that don't make the grade. Demote them to a forum of Rejected Ideas (never say "bad ideas"). Provide a short summary justification why the idea was rejected, but also expect, and be open to, the user attempting to make their idea better.