Warzone 2100 Forums

This is a great idea and there is a solid reasoning behind it.

Smaller vehicle = harder to hit.
Bigger vehicle = easier to hit.

Zarel, what do you think about it?

Before Zarel says something I think will be very similar, here's what I think

I'm pretty sure that accuracy is heavily affected by the target's movement speed. Smaller bodies - usually faster and therefore harder to hit. Bigger bodies - usually slower and easier to hit. Again, I'm not 100% sure but I remember reading something about that recently, on AA balance tests if I remember right. Light vehicles are already very annoying as they can get out of weapon range quickly. I mean, light vehicles with light weapons, not those Heavy-Cannon-Bug-Wheels (From-Hell ). Sometimes, they get quickly into the range of missile weapons or artillery and get out of range before the missile/projectile hits 'em. That's annoying because you have to wait until the weapons reload (and for some weapons, this is a "long" time, about 5 seconds).

There is a niche for them, you have yet to discover it!

the thing is that projectile/bullets speed was increased thus the speed does not matter that much now

Zarel wrote:No, reducing visibility is near impossible (and infeasible) in a game like Warzone.

What? It is nearly trivial to do. There is lots of code prepared for this, and Pumpkin probably planned to do it for the next Warzone. I turned on this feature for a few releases for cyborgs, before I reverted it for various reasons.

uhhhh... seems like preparation for ECM... cool

Per wrote:

Zarel wrote:No, reducing visibility is near impossible (and infeasible) in a game like Warzone.

What? It is nearly trivial to do. There is lots of code prepared for this, and Pumpkin probably planned to do it for the next Warzone. I turned on this feature for a few releases for cyborgs, before I reverted it for various reasons.

Is it immodest to ask what those reasons were? Technical or gameplay?

Per wrote:What? It is nearly trivial to do. There is lots of code prepared for this, and Pumpkin probably planned to do it for the next Warzone. I turned on this feature for a few releases for cyborgs, before I reverted it for various reasons.

Well, I meant in a way that improves the game. The suggestion was reducing visibility in terms of making them harder for the player see, which is one of those changes that increase annoyance and decreases fun.

I wouldn't be opposed to reducing visibility in the form of ECM, or only visible when you move closer, etc.

Olrox wrote:I'm pretty sure that accuracy is heavily affected by the target's movement speed. Smaller bodies - usually faster and therefore harder to hit. Bigger bodies - usually slower and easier to hit.

This is only true so far. This being because usually units stop and sit tight while in combat. Plus they tend to block each other, preventing them to make use of their speed advantage in most situations.

Zarel wrote:The suggestion was reducing visibility in terms of making them harder for the player see...

No, I meant reducing the distance from which any given DROID can see an enemy light vehicle. I was NOT thinking of making them translucent, adding camouflage, imposing a distance check determining whether or not the can be seen at all or any fancy stuff like this. I never intended making them harder to see for the PLAYER once they were spotted by one of his droids.

Corporal Punishment wrote:Is it immodest to ask what those reasons were? Technical or gameplay?

Mostly because I never heard of anyone noticing the change, and when I was starting to overhaul that code the exception flew out the window and was never added back in. When I revisit this code later on, I consider making units that are operating under stealth show as radar blips, so that players become more conscious of this effect.

Hmm, instead of making light bodied units harder to spot, why not do the opposite and increase their visibility range. Currently that doesn't appear possible, but another column could be added to body.txt for the default sensor that that body it uses. Two new default sensors would have to be added to sensor.txt for the better sensors on the light and medium bodies.

I'm not sure how adding another column for default sensor would be done, but I don't think it would be too difficult to implement (correct me if I'm wrong).

While this would make for good scouts, it gives light fighting vehicles no advantage because weapon range does not increase. If the heavier enemy suffers sight penalties, the light unit has the chance of getting close enough, firing and get out of sight without taking too much return fire.

Corporal Punishment wrote:While this would make for good scouts, it gives light fighting vehicles no advantage because weapon range does not increase. If the heavier enemy suffers sight penalties, the light unit has the chance of getting close enough, firing and get out of sight without taking too much return fire.

But do the light vehicles need more advantages aside from being cheaper, faster to produce, lighter, easier to get through research and, with this proposal here, having longer sensor range?

I repeat, there is already a niche for light bodies. The fact is that some people didn't find it yet!

And the niche isn't ecological also, as the topic's name suggests, but this is so unimportant I shouldn't even have noted anyway. xD

Of course, they give you an advantage already when using swarm tactics. But I was thinking of making them sustainable in situations where one doesn't intend to sacrifice half of his units in an assault. Letting them gather experience and all that...

I know the niche isn't ecological, since we're talking about machines, not lifeforms. Just wanted to give the thread a catchy title.

Corporal Punishment wrote:Of course, they give you an advantage already when using swarm tactics. But I was thinking of making them sustainable in situations where one doesn't intend to sacrifice half of his units in an assault. Letting them gather experience and all that...

I know the niche isn't ecological, since we're talking about machines, not lifeforms. Just wanted to give the thread a catchy title.

I usually assign light bodies to VTOLs and 10-unit patrols with anti-cyborg weaponry (usually flamers since they usually leave the enemy buring even if the unit dies). The VTOLs are already fast enough, therefore they usually can get back home even if shot, and of course, I don't send them unless they have their health replenished. The patrols are... patrols, so they're not intended to gather experience.

Also, setting all units to retreat at heavy damage is a must, and retreat at medium damage is my usual for such light units.
My idea is, let the armoured and strong units gain experience - since they're very powerful the bonus gained from experience will be proportional. Light units are intended specifically to be numbersome, and since experience is given by the number of droids killed by each unit, the less units, the better (considering that less units = proportionally more powerful units).

Having that in mind, it's mandatory that, if you're planning to use veterans, you should take die-hard units who can survive fights even when retreating. Light units are not very good if you are aiming towards gaining experience (since you can't add the experience of two separate units).