"War School"-A Map/Mod W.I.P.-locked sticky

[whippersnapper]

your placing downed transports - as they are looking like part of the terrain - as does the bunkers etc when placed on hills.... yes???

You got it !

Found a use for the phenom in game play too ... One of those things folks will have to discover on their own.

Regards, whip

[Arreon]

Can I test this map/mod? Or is it too unstable to test?

I'm interested to see what's in it.

I like the idea of Scavengers being as useful as the faction you play as. Also those templates look interesting.

Maybe it will help with the structures/templates mod Whipper and I are working on.

[whippersnapper]

Can I test this map/mod? Or is it too unstable to test?

I'm interested to see what's in it.

I like the idea of Scavengers being as useful as the faction you play as. Also those templates look interesting.

Maybe it will help with the structures/templates mod Whipper and I are working on.

It's stable but still Alpha - far from finished, to my mind - I'm just very methodical and step-wise in how I introduce new variables. Make sure each introduction is stable before proceeding to the next variable (my strict on the job training in the scientific method when I was a teen coming into play, I'm sure). Some will introduce a handful of variables at the same time and have a dilly of a frustrating time trying to figure-out chit. I'm in this to enjoy as much of what I do as possible - frack the tangled messes and stresses, enough of that in RL, heh.

Anyway - I appreciate the offer, Arreon, and when the time comes the area it will need much beta-testing in is in MP with all humans... I have SKI and all its A.I. GPM factors covered as well everything map and Scav alliance related.

For me anyway, while I enjoy "eye-candy" as much as the next fan spending inordinate amounts of time on aesthetics, all of that still definitely takes a back seat to game play, game play and game play (hehe, get it). . Most all I'm doing is about busting open game play in a slew of new, varied, challenging but fun, unpredictable and refreshing ways... "eye candy" being secondary, to the extent that if "eye candy" is having a detremental effect on GPMs that I cannot reconcile... well then the "eye-candy" goes in favor of GPMs. No hesitation at that point in my mind.

There is another Mod WIP by Black Project I'd like to incorporate and that would be his brand new Scavenger Structures and Units... but even
that is not essential to what I'm doing... just would be a bit more icing on the cake, so to speak..

While I'm here let me leave you with some screens.

I already mentioned how well the Skirmish Mode A.I. is deploying mixed arms ground-water combat groups and vast Vtol squads and sorties - criss crossing the map aggressively and with an emergent behavior that is very reminiscent of like a D-day battle theater.... Well the A.I. players are also doing quite nicely in growing their Base of Ops. Here let me show one base in a series of telescoping screens. Also - there are NO unit or structure congestion issues or any problems with units getting stuck in terrain "sticky spots" or zones AND.... the A.I. appears to be using all it's Vtol re-arming pads efficiently.. The A.I. players are also managing their "Outposts" and "Forward-Basing" satisfactorily.







And just because I like water splashes & explosions....







Regards, whipper

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[whippersnapper]

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Currently I'm playing around with Fog of War and the A.I.'s Emergent Behavior.........

I gave one of the A.I.s start of game map omniscience.

At first it allied with another A.I. and relentlessly double teamed and massacred a 3rd A.I. that was between them.

Then those 2 remaining A.I.s turned on each other. After a very protracted battle the A.I. that had the Fog of War advantage from
the very start of the game was annihilated by the A.I. that had to learn the map by ground unit scouting...

Counter-intuitive result, that, huh ? Stuff like this fascinates me. O_O

In my next experiment - I'm gonna level the playing field and from those results decide if there is a viable mechanic to make use of on the mod side...

This set of experiments has to do with my interest in Asymmetric Warfare Game Play.....

Regards, whip

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[whippersnapper]

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Here's a clue to what I'm up to as per my last post. Admittedly, it is not at all obvious...




How's about I quote a snippet from your opening Intelligence Brief:

....... Axis HQ to Base Commander....

The critically damaged Transport that barely made a safe landing in your perimeter has a vital intelligence recon package. Among much other intel, the Outpost manned by your Seven Nations allies will soon be under siege. and if you do not lend timely assistance they may be over-run by the enemy. Be advised that to lose your Alliance Outpost or the Recon Package will compromise the success of this mission... possibly the war effort itself.

... Carpe diem Commander !.... And, no matter the challenges,,... semper fidelis !...........

K, I'm done posting on any of this for a spell, promise. :rolleyes:

Regards, whip
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[whippersnapper]

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Become Prey combined arms hunts with its Scav allies.

Combat on the Central Citadel without the 5th player script trigger-condition.... just BP with Scav (Force+) Allies..

[new paradigm leader]

no problem at all this is a severely large mod that will lets face it go down as one of the greatest mods made for this game. on the subject of ai how about adding a few traces of the AI from good ol' warzombie by black project my god did i lose the first time i ran that one xD yes it utilises very good natural exploitation of inequity (i.e. all your base are belong to AI after 2 mins of its massive ground force attacks and 3 of its intense bombing raids)

[whippersnapper]

no problem at all this is a severely large mod that will lets face it go down as one of the greatest mods made for this game. on the subject of ai how about adding a few traces of the AI from good ol' warzombie by black project my god did i lose the first time i ran that one xD yes it utilises very good natural exploitation of inequity (i.e. all your base are belong to AI after 2 mins of its massive ground force attacks and 3 of its intense bombing raids)

Interesting. I'll look into it. I do like Black Project's work a bunch.

Whether I can achieve all the goals set forth, in truth, remains to be seen. Nonetheless, I do appreciate the vote of confidence, new paradigm leader,

My ambition here is that it all works well together - the map and the various modifications - in both skirmish with Become Prey and in MP with humans

I'd say my biggest challenge here as I add various changes is over-all Balance

At the moment I'm playing around with Become Prey utilizing Vtol Trucks and modified Scavs ("Scav Force+" I call 'em) - within the Fog of War experiment I mentioned earlier (which I may yet remove - jury is still out, though I'm liking what I see so far).. I also continue to refine the map itself throughout these other changes.

Every change I make has "balance" issues that I need to reconcile in the 2 modes of playing. At the same time I'm trying not to allow Game Play to devolve to any one type walk-thru, winning strat - in Ski or MP.

Here's a couple caps of Become Prey in action utilizing changes;

First Cap: BP Green using a Vtol Truck and assembling it's Scav Forces to combine with Armor and Borgs to deploy as a combat group over land and water. Vtol squad sorties eventually enter the mix in relentless aerial swarms from multiple vectors. When I'm being attacked from 3 vectors by ground and air, simultaneously.... then I feel I'm on the right track. Wierd, huh ?

Second Cap: BP Green deployed mixed combat group on a hunt being bombed by BP Black Vtol. This is at T-3 within 15 mins of start.





Regards, whipper,
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[whippersnapper]

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I made just one itty-bitty change this evening that took less than 10 mins to do and run a first iteration in-game..... I then spent the next 3-4 hours testing-tweaking-testing-tweaking-testing..... and so on. What I was struggling with was a balance issue and though it's much better after those hours spent than when I started - it still needs more work. I did learn some new stuff along the way which made that journey more interesting and worthwhile than nerve-wracking and will positively shape what I'm doing going forward.

I can also relate to what others are going through when you have to keep track of iterations on the fly so you don't get lost or mix up in your head what you've done - that alone can drive you batty. Best to stop when you feel that coming on. Along the way you have to come up with a system of record-keeping that works for you - that you can go back to after a spell and it's clear where you've been and where you left-off to pick it up from there. Probably the least you should do, even if your just text editing, is take a few seconds to use the // to annotate your changes.

Regards, whipper

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[whippersnapper]

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Some of i-NoD's new hi-res map features..

And as I commented in i-Nod's thread:

I like the way your features "pop" here - though I'm sure there will be those who feel otherwise and would prefer the "Urban" features which would blend considerably more but what can I say - my tastes can be a decidedly contrarian...

I'm using the "Rocky Mountain" tertile set but NOT any of the snow tiles or features covered with snow.




My Latest Balance Issue: Scav Rush !!... Yup. If BP can do it you can bet peeps will. Not as enticing as it might seem.

Regards, whip
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[new paradigm leader]

a possible idea: how about integrating the scav-copter and possibly allowing scav infantry to be designed a-la standard vehicles. this could be immensely fun as god know what absolutely terrifying if somewhat comic designs could be come up with e.g. BaBalegs BaBabody Scourge or BaBabody wheels Hyper-velocity cannon... hmmm that would be scary. imagine those in T1 cam hehehehe you're mac gun viper wheel squad of ten would be gone in an instant. maybe also in order to combat aerial rushing as is a massive problem we could weaken their weapons a little and decrease the armour of the units a bit add to the mix advanced scav techs like, scavenging wrecks (obtaining technology from wrecked vehicles that you occaisionally see lying around or from damaged units/buildings of an enemy.) and IEDS and that good ol' gas weaponry (for use VS infantry/borgs) (misnomer it would for it to work be thermal in nature maybe coloured different)... Damn i wish i could code!

[whippersnapper]

a possible idea: how about integrating the scav-copter and possibly allowing scav infantry to be designed a-la standard vehicles. this could be immensely fun as god know what absolutely terrifying if somewhat comic designs could be come up with e.g. BaBalegs BaBabody Scourge or BaBabody wheels Hyper-velocity cannon... hmmm that would be scary. imagine those in T1 cam hehehehe you're mac gun viper wheel squad of ten would be gone in an instant. maybe also in order to combat aerial rushing as is a massive problem we could weaken their weapons a little and decrease the armour of the units a bit add to the mix advanced scav techs like, scavenging wrecks (obtaining technology from wrecked vehicles that you occaisionally see lying around or from damaged units/buildings of an enemy.) and IEDS and that good ol' gas weaponry (for use VS infantry/borgs) (misnomer it would for it to work be thermal in nature maybe coloured different)... Damn i wish i could code!

I do look forward to working with Black Project's Scavenger assets when he's done, like his Scav-Copter.

Players being able to design Scavs in-game will have to wait till work on BetaWidget is completed. See -

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/Descri ... Betawidget

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/Betawidget_reference

I have already done enough experimental work along the lines you suggest with Scav Technology to fully appreciate the challenges involved in balancing such upgraded Scavengers. I do not exaggerate when I say that a single very seemingly slight change, trivial on the surface most would say, terribly imbalances the game at all T-levels to the extent that Scavengers can easily dominate opening game play to the point that Scavenger Rush is a huge problem.

I do not really know where Black Project is at with his Scavenger Mod work but I'm gonna go out on the limb here and suppose he's also contending with these related balance issues.

For example - I have Become Prey deploying a relatively small contingent of Scav Units that includes a very slight modification to the Buggy Weap and the result is that BP can defeat a player with this modest Scav combat group in well under 5 minutes of the game starting even at T-3 and that is totally unacceptable game play (for me anyway). I'm of course working on addressing these balance issues with the Scavenger-Baba changes but it's very time consuming. Indeed, at this point making mods is the easier task..... testing and balancing those mods, way, way, more difficult - sucking-up countless hours part of that equation..

Also - the modifications I'm making are so tightly integrated into what I'm doing with the map design itself that I may end-up strongly recommending that it be viewed as a Campaign-type experience even in MP mode and NOT be played on any other map. At least that is my PoV at this stage of progress. We'll see how all these inter-locking components evolve. I can say clearly that this whole experience for me is a real exercise in the practical aspects of complexity theory and emergent behavior which has lots to do with the project's allure on my end as much as playing WZ itself...

Regards, whip

[whippersnapper]

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I've put Zarel's latest Rebalance 0.5.2 into the mix and I'm in the very early stages of testing to see how that plays-out - the usual matrix of balance-complexity-emergence. Should be interesting.

Here's a neat perspective shot. Landscape vistas have always fascinated and mystified me as to why that was. I recently read a book that reveals connections to evolutionary biology that puts this gut reaction into an amazing context. The work is called "The Art Instinct: Beauty, Pleasure and Evolution" by Denis Dutton.

From the West -




From the East where I still need to work on the "waterfall" (among other things) -




Regards, whip
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[i-NoD]

Hi,

Quite a good Project you have here...
Talking about designable Scavs: I've just though that recreation of base vehicles without mounted weapons would be a good staring point for such a task. So, I've spent a whole day slicing and toasting and nearly completed a new Jeep.

[whippersnapper]

Hi,

Quite a good Project you have here...
Talking about designable Scavs: I've just though that recreation of base vehicles without mounted weapons would be a good staring point for such a task. So, I've spent a whole day slicing and toasting and nearly completed a new Jeep.

Hello,

Thanks.

Those are some cool jeeps. Present more versatility too for weapon mounts. xD

Let me post your screen of what you're working on so folks can see right off... You're approach to future design of Scavs is a good strategy I think.





I must say this new art of yours is really inspiring.

Regards, whip
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