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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by XANAX »

whippersnapper wrote:
Ah, you have a point there... But WZ scale is wacky.... like if you put those 50 gallon oil drums next to Scav fortifications they look like they're 1000 gallon drums. O_o
well yes everything with them are out of proportion

but hows this? version one.. need input
Image
"ek-scav-ator", lol. We could use more humor in this 'hood - it's a good thang all 'round, even "punster" wit. :D

Though, seriously, you can use that to name it in your files... without the "-"s though.... "ekScavAtor" or somethin'.

Regards, whip :ninja:
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sounds good
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by XboxJosh »

Cool! :3

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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

XANAX wrote:
but hows this? version one.. need input
Image
The cargo containers are quite excellent. I wasn't expecting any to embrace the notion and it was a marvelous surprise to see how you creatively gave it your own unique stamp. :)

I would suggest that they would be used for the first-story foundation of a struct and can be built-up from there to second and third stories. Think of them as "LEGO" building blocks where with a few basic geometric configs you could build a variety of structural assemblages of which 'walls', 'weapon towers' (if stood on end, long end vertical) and even 'arch-ways' would be just a few examples of what can be done.

Here's a quick sketch of what I mean by basic "LEGO" Cargo Container (aka, CC) building block geometric configs - it's just 5, I'm sure you can think of more configs:

Image

Combining with the stock Scav structs can work but I think the key is making the CC's start on the first story and be part of the foundation of the struct.... then going vertical with 'em (if you wanted) would flow aesthetically and also make for sound RL engineering as well. Scavs would have to be good engineers.

It's also conceivable that Scavs would paint pics, symbols or tribal or clan "colors" on Cargo Containers, I would imagine much as some Native Americans do Totem Art or Pre-Columbian peoples like Maya, Aztec and Inca did "stele" art to their cities and strongholds. These are just some thoughts aloud. If you're creating 'em you have to go with what feels good and right to you, the artist.


Some "Stele" and "Totem" visuals: (The actual iconography or symbol motifs could be whatever - entirely fabricated from imagination - doesn't have to be related to any RL historical traditions.... 'course it could, as an option, but certainly not an essential prerequisite... )

Image

Image

Note how the Pacific Northwest Indian Totem art technique also hearkens to the old-school cel-animation technique to achieve distinct and concise texture effects (course Totem technique predates cel-animation techniques by a thousand plus years). This comes across in a somewhat blurry fashion in Pumpkin's texture for the Tiger Body, for example.

Image

The Flying "Tattoos" of World War II....: The Pilots and Crews of the P-40 Tomahawk fighters, aka "Flying Tigers", the B-17 Flying Fortress and B-52 Bombers would paint their planes with all sort of iconography...

Image

Image


Or the World War 1 Camouflaged Ships: A bit reminiscent of the Cubist fine art movement of the time defined by the work of artists Braque and Picasso..

Image

Image

Image

Regards, whip :D
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

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Besides actual first-hand experience with Cargo Containers and the heavy equipment industry I have also done a fair amount of research that has informed the basis of this detailed prognostication into their future role-out in our 21st Century and the subsequent fictive connections made and expressed earlier in relation to Scavengers in the Post Collapse world of WZ 2100....

Here are 3 reference articles (there are thousands which anyone can find) that will get you started if you are wondering -

"WTF ! Where do these guys come up with this cargo container bull chit for Scavs ? !" ;)

For Our Grandchildren's Future, Global Competition, Not Revenue, Is The Real Challenge

Increased Decay Strains Budget-strapped New Orleans Port

Panama Canal Container Trades - Past, Present, Future - a new publication of Dynamar

As you can see we are not just lazy-minded, off-the-cuff & arbitrary with our Speculative Fiction extrapolations... xD

Regards, whip :ninja:

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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

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Short Personal Note: My job for $$ keeps me busy 7 days a week. Think I've had 1 day off from my job in the last month. But since that only accounts for 8 hours a day (plus 4 hours a day for sleep), that still leaves me with 12 hours a day to play around with to do stuff I like lots and various mandatory "chores". So, I manage some work daily on this project - though the time invested varies day to day depending on my other "extracurricular pursuits" &, of course, the essential "social butterflying" involving the female of the species which is often the hot pepper spice of life, regardless of how much fun this other stuff might be. A guy needs his inspiring muse to carry-on.. ;)

Of late I has been spending time on the "Truce" yarn spinning for the illustrated e-book, also the "Lesser Evil" FMV GFX, SFX and music sound track. This coming weekend, as I referred to earlier in passing, I have the following lined-up for deving.

Up-Coming "WS" To-Do-List:

1.) Integrate XANAX's new Alien Structures and Bodies art.... which also includes .txt editing all the associated stats. Building the "Central Citadel" out of this new art and start modifying my CAM scripting accordingly for the "Alien A.I." triggers part of "WS's" GPMs.

2.) Integrate XANAX's new "Scav ATV" unit art + all the associated .Text editing.

3.) Integrate Black Project's new "Scav Chopper" art, stats and GPMs. BP was kind enough to release an early ALPHA of his Scav Mod to allow me to be able to do this. Thanks BP ! I of course have to first study what BP has done beyond the new art to see how it works and what I have to do in-turn to merge it with what is already extant in "WS" and also on the "sure-fire" drawing board.

4.) I also still have topography work to finish: "bocage", COOP "Back-Doors", 3D Cliff-Face and "Teleportation Vector Points" for transport lofted Borg squads and their tactical stealth deployment.

5.) Still have to work-out / figure-out:

a.) Scav Transporting Mechanic

b.) Flying Constructor balancing

c.) Jump-Borg integration and balancing

d.) Do I wanna include "Proximity Mine Fields"

e.) Do I wanna include the "Sniper Borg"

f.) Continued Borg, Scav and "Transport / Air-Lift" re-balancing

g.) Possible early AA re-balancing - if Zarel doesn't get to it first, that is O_O

h.) Continue work-around for mitigating VTOL "stalls" due to extreme vertical transitions that exposes the limitations of how absolute height is handled in the code base.

i.) Modifications to "Become Prey"

j.) More stuff that escapes me at the moment. O_o

As work progresses I'll post in-game action shots and commentary on the stress-testing issues I come up against that always arise because of the very nature of "emergent behavior out of system dynamics complexity" which is omnipresent and not predictable in its details such that chit comes up that is very counter-intuitive..

Regards, whip :ninja:
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Last edited by whippersnapper on 21 Aug 2009, 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by XANAX »

I get what saying about lego construction
I just didn't want the scav factory to be completely unrecognizable ;) , until the factory module then I'll replace the foundation with containers :3
watch it's evolution :D
btw think of the new scav factory as a bridge between scav and (insert faction)'s factory

version 2.0
added support beams, more containers, and scaled + fixed textures on factory/warehouse3 model

I will add emblems.. but I think it would be awesome if we make pie connectors for emblems, being separate would allow easier modding of emblems for future faction ideas, namely Scav tribe/town/city variants

Image



also xD xD xD xD xD

I just redid the scav bloke and cyborg + their animation
.. looks good :stare: but the messes and textures are a little off, blender ate my vertices :gonk:
but the good news is that although crude they work,
just wait.. when they get the new ani format in :twisted:

Image



>>>download<<<
[http://www.deviantart.com/download/1342 ... APRIME.zip]

new cyborg 2.0
Image

head ideas I didn't know which one was the best, maybe we could make it faction based
Image

I will be posting the new Scav & Cyborg in a different topic for other users/members
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

XANAX wrote: I get what saying about lego construction I just didn't want the scav factory to be completely unrecognizable ;) , until the factory module then I'll replace the foundation with containers :3
watch it's evolution :D
That makes sense and I look forward to the evolution. :) I approach stuff in similar fashion.
btw think of the new scav factory as a bridge between scav and insert faction's factory

version 2.0
added support beams, more containers, and scaled + fixed textures on factory/warehouse3 model
Looks good.
I will add emblems.. but I think it would be awesome if we make pie connectors for emblems, being separate would allow easier modding of emblems for future faction ideas, namely Scav tribe/town/city variants
That's a good idea.
also xD xD xD xD xD

I just redid the scav bloke and cyborg + their animation
.. looks good :stare: but the messes and textures are a little off, blender ate my vertices :gonk:
but the good news is that although crude they work,
just wait.. when they get the new ani format in :twisted:
Sweet Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition - that's exciting !
new cyborg 2.0

head ideas I didn't know which one was the best, maybe we could make it faction based
Definitely something to consider. Cool art.
I will be posting the new Scav & Cyborg in a different topic for other users/members
Right-on..! The more the merrier. :)

Note: Posted through my smart phone so I must be brief.

Ttyl8r, whip :D
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by XANAX »

whippersnapper wrote: That makes sense and I look forward to the evolution. :) I approach stuff in similar fashion.


Looks good.



That's a good idea.



Sweet Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition - that's exciting !



Definitely something to consider. Cool art.


Right-on..! The more the merrier. :)

Note: Posted through my smart phone so I must be brief.

Ttyl8r, whip :D
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Thanks for the input I'm excited as well Image
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

XANAX wrote:
Thanks for the input I'm excited as well Image
I love that smiley. :D
whippersnapper wrote:.
.........................

j.) More stuff that escapes me at the moment. O_o
...............
Regards, whip :ninja:
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That's an understatement. I'm doing everything against the v.2.2.1 data and binary. The next release is gonna have a changed binary AND data set. This last means I'll likely have to re-do most everything I've done to the v.2.2.1 data set so as to be compatible - and that my friends gets to be a frackin PITA when you think ALL the Mod and Map work I did against v.1.10 still runs beautiful as long as10 years after it was first created. Same is true of other games you Mod, for the most part.

Having no choice but to maintain mods for simple status quo compatibility is not a commonplace. Mostly your focus is on advancing your Mod's depth and breath in newer versions and not on re-doing your initial work for mere compatibility sake.

To me the whole of the term "stability" is inclusive of this last norm-state.

Mod compatibility versioning involves a lot of NOT very fun work which is the principle reason the community has only seen bits and pieces of work done to v.1.10 made compatible to the current binary-data set and why most of the major stuff - like A.I.Boost, LOD, Citadel Elite, v.1.11, v.1.12, to sight but a few examples - remains, in the main, "untranslated".

When we picked-up where Pumpkin left-off we gave ourselves a dual, simultaneous mission: create new add-ons AND create a set of tools (editors, utilities) that made it easier for any to get into creating for the game as well convenient for end-users to try-out all the new toys. And of course, all that was worked to the relative stability of the v.1.10 binary and data-set. All those goals were achieved, btw, for those of you who just came upon the scene after we got the source liberated - yet another goal successfully achieved..over the course of a nearly 6 year sustained effort.... Lord were we totally naive about the full-scope meaning OSS.

Ok... end of my little spiel which is mainly intended for the uninitiated who are clueless of what all is involved in getting stuff done these days..... It's not just that the "pipeline", tool-set, is not up to v.1.10 snuff but this "binary-data set flux" adds an additional burden which I'm sure also factors into nipping in the bud any sustained effort at creating really new add-ons of a complex nature. (I'm not gonna touch MP related stuff which was also a prime focus for us to turn-around for the better but became a whole other can-of-worms subsequent to the open-sourcing of WZ.. AND still remains a major issue, mostly unresolved.)

A few of us are "die-hard" Warzoners so we'll deal with all the foregoing "flaming hoops & back-flips & obstacles" to bringing new stuff to term and "prime-time" status, but do understand THIS is the reality and it ain't real purty. ;)

Regards, whip :ninja:
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

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Back to the business at hand..........

@ XANAX: Brought my attention to bare today on just how to apply your Alien art packs - starting with the structures. So many ways to go about it I had to think it through carefully so I wouldn't end up re-doing stuff down the road cause it wouldn't work with other stuff in the pipeline. Anyway.... just how I've decided to do it necessitates my changing a bunch of files in 32EW first which is what I started on today. This will allow me to build the Alien Citadel Fortress directly in 32EW. I'll be testing those results next. If that works then I will make the corresponding changes to the game binary mp.wz files and test those results in-game. If that too works then I'll go back into 32EW and actually build the Alien Citadel, compile the map.wz and run it in game and see how that works out. If that also goes well then I'll edit the struct stats themselves. BTW, I'm gonna use the connectors in your structs for an assortment of weaps. :)

If all the foregoing goes to plan I should have some in-game screens in a couple days of the Alien Citadel Fortress.. After all that I will focus on the Alien bodies-propulsions and the unit templates and related files /stats. Once that is all done I can get back to the Alien A.I. CAM Scripting. Only when this is all working will it be wise and sensible to move onto the New Borg and Scav creations and their integration ..... all that new fabulous art you've done plus Black Project's "Scav Chopper" which I also think is the bomb All in all, time consuming but very exciting more than anything. If I come up against any obstacles i can't resolve I'll post on it otherwise it will be progress reports and screen caps henceforth. :3

You've set the bar high XANAX, and while I cannot match the pace of your productive creativity I do wanna do your work justice on the GPM side of all this. xD

Regards, whip :cool:

EDIT: I should probably first update my current files to the new v.2.2.2 binary /data-set release before proceeding. Hopefully that won't involve much hair-pulling as I would like to preserve my warrior locks... O_o
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

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Frack ! 32EW won't accept the new .PIEs without an IMD error and I can't figure it out - though I can see clearly a dif in the files opening 'em up in word pad (between the polygon data and the connector data the 32EW .pies have something designated "BSP" data. I have to do this anyway to change the .png texture page referent to .pcx which also allows me to open the files in PieSlicer which in-turn uses the same texture format as does 32EW) but i don't know what it means, to be honest, or how to resolve the issue. (I was able to get Astorian's new lab struct .pie model into 32EW as a "Feature" a few weeks back .... weird chit, man. What's the diff between a "Structure" .pie and a "Feature" .pie ? I dunno of any. O_o )

Still... rather than letting this snafu drive me nuts, getting stalled and waste more time than I have already I can work around it and make the stuff in 32EW and see it in-game as it should be like the screen cap below.

This is just the start. I'm gonna change that sensor to something else too since i don't need that struct to have a sensor because of other GPM changes made vis-a-vis FoW plus the Alien presence is gonna be Cam A.I. scripted anyway. I'll start getting your additional new Alien Structs in-game as part of the built-up Alien Central Citadel Complex now that I'm confident the 32EW work-around will suffice moving forward. More to post in the coming days...

Image

Regards, whip :ninja:

Side Bar: The bb software started cropping my screens a few weeks ago and it's annoying in that I don't friggin know why all of a sudden. Grrr... :rolleyes:
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

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K... all 4 Alien Structures are in-game so I can start building their Central Citadel.... however, I came across connectors in the new models that were free floating in space so I started fixing 'em in PieSlicer - no big deal - but in the process I've started experimenting with their placement, in an effort to make 'em more "alien" and also I'm thinking of doing multiple-weaps per structure which would take us down the road of creating an UBER Alien "King-of-the-Hill" for players to contend with. So, it will be a couple more days while I work this out and then I will be able to post some action screen caps of the Alien Central Citadel. This is a "proof of concept" phase wherein I'm doing the Alien "placements" in 32EW which is NOT ultimately how this will work ..... meaning that because the Alien Presence is a non-playable player, so to speak, (and must function along side "Become Prey" in Skirmish) I have to document specifically the entire pre-placement build so that I can then REMOVE it all in 32EW !! This has to be done because I must generate the entire Alien Complex "script-o-matically" as well its behavior, natch....

On a side note; I've decided to include Flying Constructors in "WS" because I've alas, I think, figured-out how to deal with the balance issues they raised in the past. NEXT along these lines - Jump Borgs, the Sniper Borg and other goodies. ;)

L8r, whip :ninja:

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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by XboxJosh »

Ooooh.... The alien structs will have weaps?

Maybe you could make the alien structs drop artifacts for advanced facilities, so players could have structs with weaps too? :twisted:

Just a idea, feel free to ignore me.....

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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

Post by whippersnapper »

XboxJosh wrote:Ooooh.... The alien structs will have weaps?

Maybe you could make the alien structs drop artifacts for advanced facilities, so players could have structs with weaps too? :twisted:

Just a idea, feel free to ignore me.....
That's a good idea. I'll look to an appetizing way of blending it into the stew pot I'm cookin here. :)

Maybe tie-it into the capture of the Scav Outposts (which won't be easy like in the original campaign).

The Alien Central Citadel is gonna be very tough to capture as is and I may need to include something along these lines to give players more of chance. Especially if I max-out the weapon slots and give the Alien Structs 4 weaps each.... 'Course I gotta be mindful of not going over-board and making the Alien Citadel unvanquishible but for an elite execution of combined arms and simultaneous multiple offensive vectors by land, water and air. Believe me, one-dimensional attrition tacs just won't work as won't any rush tacs for that matter. Nor will arty creep either. WS will compel thinking and executing in 4 dimensions so it probably will not be to the liking of a whole contingent more comfortable with a one trick pony style.

Then let's not forget there are the 2 New Alien Unit GFX XANAX created as that will have buff power plants and stats to boot but also have to be worked into the mix toeing some balance metric that is nothing less than fair... At the moment I'm only going with the Alien weaponized structs and 2 Alien air units - no alien ground units. After i finish the Alien Citadel and post screens of it I'll do a preview of the new Alien Air Units.

XANAX's new Scav and Borg stuff will be for players to use against each other and, ultimately, to try and defeat the Alien presence which will control the central map resources (and high ground) from the get go. There will be no secret about this as your Intel from jump will be precise - thus making the game play a matter of pure skills and balls.. xD You'll also have to learn how to "teleport" your Borg Squads (once you get how the mechanic works it's pretty easy to do).

And last, but not least, thanks for the good suggestion, Josh. :3 .

Regards, whip :cool:
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Re: "War School" - A Map / Mod W.I.P.

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