Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?

[zoid]

The propulsion speed limit could easily be removed with a mod.

True, but I would like to see it in the game. It's not really a drastic gameplay change that should be confined to mod. Not many people use mods, and as I said, I really would like to see someone use the currently useless Mantis in a MP game.

I voted for the experience bonus to be applied after the max speed cap, purely bacuse it is more consistent, however i am not sure i agree with the +5% speed boost per experience level combined with being applied after the max speed cap.

Yeah, a Hero tank that usually goes 100 would go 150. That's really fast. But then again, he's a Hero. In the campaign, the highest level you can reach without really working at it is Professional, which would go 120. One weird thing would be the Hero Commander bonus. 22 tanks going 150+? Insane! Maybe the Commanders shouldn't give that high of a bonus to all their assigned units, especially since Commanders are very easy to level up.

[guciomir]

Why not combine both ideas?

+5% up to the speed limit cap
+2% up after reaching the limit

Or just stick to the bonus "after", but cut it to 2 or 3%. Guys, 5% is insane in campaign, most of my units has more than 128 kills and this would make my army invincible.

[zoid]

Why not combine both ideas?

+5% up to the speed limit cap
+2% up after reaching the limit

Or just stick to the bonus "after", but cut it to 2 or 3%. Guys, 5% is insane in campaign, most of my units has more than 128 kills and this would make my army invincible.

3% speed bonus would be about right in campaign, but a higher speed bonus before the limit just encourages more heavy tanks (that way they're always below the limit and get more bonus).
My question is, why do we have to have a speed limit anyways? Removing the speed limit might let people use a New Paradigm body now and then for faster scout and hit-and-run units. As part of speed limit removal the speed formula might need to be tweaked too.
Could someone please post the speed formula and/or a use for Mantis or Scorpion?

[Zarel]

3% speed bonus would be about right in campaign, but a higher speed bonus before the limit just encourages more heavy tanks (that way they're always below the limit and get more bonus).
My question is, why do we have to have a speed limit anyways? Removing the speed limit might let people use a New Paradigm body now and then for faster scout and hit-and-run units. As part of speed limit removal the speed formula might need to be tweaked too.
Could someone please post the speed formula and/or a use for Mantis or Scorpion?

Something weird happened to the speed formula between 1.10 and now. I'm not sure entirely what it is, but it's completely unreliable now, and nearly all units go at speed limit.

[psychopompos]

In real life, a light car and a heavy car with the same engine don't go the same speed.

yes they do!
its the acceleration rate that changes.
the light car reaches the top speed faster & has more agility then the heavier.
car engines got mechanical limits on revs it can sustain/tollerate.

Speed is not limited by propulsion!!

yes it is.
a jet turbine will give higher speed then a diesel.
electrical drive of the wheels (used in modern trains (also ambrams tank?)) can deliver more torque then a gear / shaft linkage.
tracks have higher likelihood of stress failure of the mechanical links in the segments, then wheels.
though material research & fast-track tech can alleviate that.

Removing the speed limit will not only make the game more realistic, but give uses to the NP bodies and some other underused bodies.

mantis is faster then cobra for most of tech 2 before the limit.
or was, 2.2 seems to be a bit different & i havnt checked yet.

though is fairness, if i could, i would change the balance to make the level 1 2 & 3 bodies distinct levels.

[zoid]

yes they do!
its the acceleration rate that changes.
the light car reaches the top speed faster & has more agility then the heavier.
car engines got mechanical limits on revs it can sustain/tollerate.
yes it is.
a jet turbine will give higher speed then a diesel.
electrical drive of the wheels (used in modern trains (also ambrams tank?)) can deliver more torque then a gear / shaft linkage.
tracks have higher likelihood of stress failure of the mechanical links in the segments, then wheels.
though material research & fast-track tech can alleviate that.

Let me state my argument differently. Suppose you have 2 light, cars with normal engines. Then you put a more powerful turbocharged engine in one of them. Do they both still go the same speed? No. Yet a Bug Wheels Lancer with the starting engine goes 175, but does not increase speed as you research more engine upgrades. You could put a jet engine in it, but it would still go 175. With the speed limit removed, the vehicle will increase in speed as it got better engines. (BTW, in Warzone a jet engine is not propulsion. Propulsion is either wheels, half-tracks, tracks, hover, or VTOL.)

mantis is faster then cobra for most of tech 2 before the limit.
or was, 2.2 seems to be a bit different & i havnt checked yet.

Are you saying you use regularly use Mantis in MP? I doubt it, because there's no point making a Mantis Bunker Buster Hover (for hit-and-run) when a Python BB Hover goes 200 as well. Hopefully someone will rethink the speed formula soon and get rid of the unrealistic speed limit, though.

[new paradigm leader]

sorry psychopompos but you are incorrect two vehicles using the same engine though it is true the lighter car will accelerate much faster it will also attain a higher top speed. it's all about physics. look at it logically velocity is limited by acting forces such as gravity, friction, and other such things which is going to have greater forces acting on it a heavier chassis or a lighter one? ill tell you the heavier one of course. physics... you gotta love it.

yours

NPL

[guciomir]

It seems Psychopompos that you do not have a car and a driving license. In the real life, when you drive with some people in the car your top speed is much lower.

[Zarel]

look at it logically velocity is limited by acting forces such as gravity, friction, and other such things

Well, technically, gravity doesn't limit velocity at all, except how it increases friction. The only force limiting velocity is friction (and air resistance, which is a form of friction).

Agreed, though, that engine power has an effect on max velocity.

[new paradigm leader]

Well, technically, gravity doesn't limit velocity at all, except how it increases friction. The only force limiting velocity is friction (and air resistance, which is a form of friction)

lol ill admit even in the physics i was utilising there was that mistake... wait there are cases in which it does, mortars for instance in fact without gravity mortars would be untenable and cannon shells would go on forever also earth would have no orbit or atmosphere so we would not exist in fact without gravity nothing could exist. eh digressed. sorry

Yours

NPL

[zoid]

Hmm, that's something to think about. Just remember though, in Warzone, friction will play a huge role, especially in off-road situations (99% of the time). These units are pretty heavy too. Compared to the size of those Scavenger jeeps and buses, even a Viper must be quite a hulk. Add a big cannon and you'd better pray your engine can even move the beast.

[zoid]

Removing the speed limit cap will definitely improve many aspects of gameplay.

[Zarel]

Committed. It'll be in 2.2.1. While I am normally loath to make balance changes in stable branches, 2.2.0 hopefully hasn't propagated too much.

[Samowar]

Suppose you have 2 light, cars with normal engines. Then you put a more powerful turbocharged engine in one of them. Do they both still go the same speed? No.

Depends on how responsibly the respective drivers drive :p . Remember we're not driving on well-maintained highways but mostly off-road. Let's say 150kph is the fastest speed you can drive off-road through the desert of Arizona without turning your car over as soon as you hit the first rabbithole - then you won't be able to drive faster than 150 even if you put a 300hp engine into your car. You'll be able to accelerate at an insane rate even with a Heavy Cannon strapped to your roof, but you'll still run an extreme risk of crashing your car if you go 200kph through the desert.

However, one could argue an experienced driver can drive faster without crashing. So it's realistic to apply experience bonusses on top of the speed cap.

[zoid]

Depends on how responsibly the respective drivers drive :p . Remember we're not driving on well-maintained highways but mostly off-road. Let's say 150kph is the fastest speed you can drive off-road through the desert of Arizona without turning your car over as soon as you hit the first rabbithole - then you won't be able to drive faster than 150 even if you put a 300hp engine into your car. You'll be able to accelerate at an insane rate even with a Heavy Cannon strapped to your roof, but you'll still run an extreme risk of crashing your car if you go 200kph through the desert.

The speed limit doesn't have much of a useful gameplay purpose and is not as realistic as you make it out to be. I don't think it's based on crash-and-burn either. I don't understand how a wheeled vehicle can go 175 before crashing, but if a tracked tank went over 125 it would tip. Seriously, a tracked vehicle getting popped by a rabbit hole would be hilarious. xD :rolleyes:
I'm getting a bit tired of this speed cap physics\realism argument. I'd like to discuss the effects on gameplay instead.