Compliments and complants

[elio]

Please don't re-work the models themselves but consider using tangent-space normals which would allow for more detailed looking models without the added overhead of more polygons and still be able to run on average hardware with good performance. This would require high-poly models being made of each model so it is non-trivial.

This it not an option for me. Look, these models are ten years old. And still at that time it wasn't high poly in those days.. i wouldn't call a ten years old pc an 'average' pc. and.. em tangent-space normals smells extremely like shaders, and shaders are for modern graphic cards only. well in the future we're using shaders too. it's more likely that an average gfx card can handle more polygons than support shaders.

we intend to release a mod with the old graphics, once they're replaced

regards
elio

[Sub Judicatr]

Hi all,

Two things, both questions out of ignorance:

1. Why does it take so long for a mac port to come out if you already have a linux version (just curious)? I love playing with my brother, and we've (ok, I've) been waiting impatiently for two weeks for WZ 2.2 Mac to come out, because, well, I am a mac. And my brother is a PC. Ahhhh, sigh. Just like the commercials.

2. I love the work you folks do. It is amazing to me (not being a programmer myself). I also really appreciate that it must be real work. As someone who does (from time to time) pay real money for games that I generally do not enjoy anywhere near as much as WZ and are never, ever, ever cross platform compatible, how come you folks don't have a voluntary "donate here w. Paypal and help support the WZ 2100 R project/team?" Is it related to open source software ethics? Just curious, but I do have some money (like enough to go buy a game). Why give it to to a big company when I like your work better anyway?

-SJ

[Buginator]

Hi all,

Two things, both questions out of ignorance:

1. Why does it take so long for a mac port to come out if you already have a linux version (just curious)? I love playing with my brother, and we've (ok, I've) been waiting impatiently for two weeks for WZ 2.2 Mac to come out, because, well, I am a mac. And my brother is a PC. Ahhhh, sigh. Just like the commercials.

We don't really have a dedicated mac builder, and the one we (ab)use was busy with other things.
That and the fact that the mac version is broken (for quite awhile it seems), in that, it can't read in zip files... so until whoever can come up with a fix, I rather not push out 2.2.0 for the Mac. Hopefully in 2.2.1, it will be fixed.

2. I love the work you folks do. It is amazing to me (not being a programmer myself). I also really appreciate that it must be real work. As someone who does (from time to time) pay real money for games that I generally do not enjoy anywhere near as much as WZ and are never, ever, ever cross platform compatible, how come you folks don't have a voluntary "donate here w. Paypal and help support the WZ 2100 R project/team?" Is it related to open source software ethics? Just curious, but I do have some money (like enough to go buy a game). Why give it to to a big company when I like your work better anyway?
-SJ

I would have no idea how you would divide the funds, and who would get what, based on what, or if it is even allowed with using GPL software.
What we most need, is help, with fixing/updating the program, and that usually requires more people.

[Zarel]

I would have no idea how you would divide the funds, and who would get what, based on what, or if it is even allowed with using GPL software.

Why wouldn't it be allowed with GPL software? It's perfectly fine - the hard part is dividing it. Most OSS projects just give it to whoever runs the server (in our case, Kamaze - I'm sure he's less likely to find legal problems with a donation if he's the one getting the money ).

1. Why does it take so long for a mac port to come out if you already have a linux version (just curious)? I love playing with my brother, and we've (ok, I've) been waiting impatiently for two weeks for WZ 2.2 Mac to come out, because, well, I am a mac. And my brother is a PC. Ahhhh, sigh. Just like the commercials.

Technically, you're a Mac user, and and he's a PC user. In the commercials, the two are intended to personify ("represent") the computers themselves, they're not the users. That's why they say things like "I don't get viruses" instead of "My computer doesn't get viruses".

Anyway, I hadn't noticed we still don't have a Mac version. I'll build and upload one next Thursday (which is the only time I'll have a good enough Internet connection to upload a 50 MB app).

[Buginator]

Anyway, I hadn't noticed we still don't have a Mac version. I'll build and upload one next Thursday (which is the only time I'll have a good enough Internet connection to upload a 50 MB app).

Don't do that, until we can find the reason that the mac release builds are broken...

[Per]

Are they really that broken? Can't we just announce that mods (including third party maps) do not work in that build?

[Buginator]

Are they really that broken? Can't we just announce that mods (including third party maps) do not work in that build?

We could do that, but then they wouldn't be able to play online games with different maps, and it will keep trying to send the map forever...

[Sub Judicatr]

I don't mind waiting, but I would point out that even without mod playing ability, there is still a lot of game to be played with the standard multiplayer maps and the standard ai (IMHO). Plus the 2.2 rc rebalance has really change the game (in exciting ways, I think!). I would love to be able to play with friends on other platforms on 2.2, even without mods and new maps, but like I said, I am happy waiting... y'all are incredible for doing the work anyway, and every time I download a new version it is notable better.

Also, thanks for responding to my post so fast. Totally appreciate it.

-SJ

PS: And in response to the comment about being a mac vs using a mac... you just haven't bought far enough into the corporate hype yet. You probably don't even sleep with your computer under your pillow at night! Where is your dedication, man? Be the mac! Be the pc! You probably still think of yourself as a person, rather than a consumer (tsk tsk)...

Just kidding, of course. Thanks again, and hope the problem with the mac build and the zip reading isn't too complicated.

[Zarel]

Don't do that, until we can find the reason that the mac release builds are broken...

I still think we should build 2.2.0 now.

Users want a Mac build. Plenty of people play on default maps. People can use workarounds, and extract the maps out manually. This is a pretty bad bug, but not nearly as bad as having no Mac version at all. Mac users haven't had mod/map support for ages, so it's not like it's that big of a deal.

Unless there are further objections, I'm still building/uploading this Thursday.

[Buginator]

Don't do that, until we can find the reason that the mac release builds are broken...

I still think we should build 2.2.0 now.

Users want a Mac build. Plenty of people play on default maps. People can use workarounds, and extract the maps out manually. This is a pretty bad bug, but not nearly as bad as having no Mac version at all. Mac users haven't had mod/map support for ages, so it's not like it's that big of a deal.

Unless there are further objections, I'm still building/uploading this Thursday.

It wouldn't be the 'lite' version though. 2.2.0 is the 'FMV release', which means, that you must then include all the vids in the mac version...

I still think it is unwise to do this, and will generate bug reports about a issue we know about, but can't fix at this time. (Also, it shouldn't be that hard to fix, if it works in debug builds, but not release builds, then start checking the differences in xcode between those, and how physfs gets compiled.)
Even if you put a disclaimer up, that doesn't mean the disclaimer will follow wherever the .dmg goes.

[Zarel]

It wouldn't be the 'lite' version though. 2.2.0 is the 'FMV release', which means, that you must then include all the vids in the mac version...

I still think it is unwise to do this, and will generate bug reports about a issue we know about, but can't fix at this time. (Also, it shouldn't be that hard to fix, if it works in debug builds, but not release builds, then start checking the differences in xcode between those, and how physfs gets compiled.)
Even if you put a disclaimer up, that doesn't mean the disclaimer will follow wherever the .dmg goes.

We've been releasing builds with this issue for presumably a ridiculously long amount of time, since the 2.1 betas, and have not gotten a single bug report (which is why it's gone unfixed for so long). I don't think it's worth holding off a new release for. I'll put the disclaimer inside a readme in the .dmg - will that be enough?

[Buginator]

It wouldn't be the 'lite' version though. 2.2.0 is the 'FMV release', which means, that you must then include all the vids in the mac version...

I still think it is unwise to do this, and will generate bug reports about a issue we know about, but can't fix at this time. (Also, it shouldn't be that hard to fix, if it works in debug builds, but not release builds, then start checking the differences in xcode between those, and how physfs gets compiled.)
Even if you put a disclaimer up, that doesn't mean the disclaimer will follow wherever the .dmg goes.

We've been releasing builds with this issue for presumably a ridiculously long amount of time, since the 2.1 betas, and have not gotten a single bug report (which is why it's gone unfixed for so long). I don't think it's worth holding off a new release for. I'll put the disclaimer inside a readme in the .dmg - will that be enough?

I guess if your insistent on the release, then yes, stick the in the .dmg.

I also guess that our mac base is so small, that they never bothered or were oblivious to the nature of the issue.

[Buginator]

I guess if your insistent on the release, then yes, stick the in the .dmg.

I also guess that our mac base is so small, that they never bothered or were oblivious to the nature of the issue.

I believe I have fixed the issue. Will update once we know if the fix fixes it.

See this thread:
Request for help, from our Mac userbase, that can use xcode - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3188

[iMac]

As one of your small Mac fanbase, I have been wanting to add new ai's, maps & such for a while now.

My vote would be to have a full, stable release, rather than a game that has a "it works except for..." in the readme.

Y'all do this in your spare time, unpaid, for the community. I can think of plenty of other things to do while someone more talented than me gets this game playable & fun.

[Zarel]

Whoopsies. I've had a really busy day, and didn't get around to it. I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for that Mac build. =/