Warzone 2100 Forums

Umm, I'm new with this game (just download it around two month ago).

After a month of trying the campaign, and failing in skirmish (vs Easy NullBot AI), I finally get a grasp on researches and at least capable to handling easy AI. Trying on Normal NullBot AI with personalities, and at least getting a grasp on how to survive...

But still, just recently trying a FFA in The Pit map, with 7 NullBot AI (with extra personalities mod). I build a good defensive line with primarily cannon line, Heavy Cannons, Cannon Bastions, Hyper Velocity Cannon hardpoints and walls. And of course, I also put some flak cannons to prepare if someone sending VTOLs...

Having a bit bored by the AIs sending one or two VTOLs to my base, I think it's time to end this, and send my tanks to an AI base, they're doing good, but... suddenly a massed VTOLs from the Flamer NullBot AI arrives in my base and bombard my howitzers into oblivion.

Alright, some challenges right? so I finished the AI base (the MR Nullbot) while rebuilding my base, this time with more flak cannon emplacements and hardpoints.

But oh hell, those massed VTOLs arrive again, in insane numbers, and despite taking some losses from the flak cannons, they're now literally wreck havoc with burning bombs in my base, destroying what I think as a good defense into burning cinder in no time... Trying to build more flak cannons but they just bombard me from above until my defenses are gone, and suddenly massive rushes of flamer cyborgs and tanks going in and killing everything... (because my howitzers are gone!)

Alright, rant over... I think I've read that flak cannons have a rather high damage for AA purposes... but trying to use non-cannon and machine gun researches tend to get my bases overrun by AI rushes early on... So, how do you defend your bases from VTOLs in cannon line, or did cannons are really weak vs VTOLs?

Thank You

1) FFA balance is different from duel/team-duel balance. In duel games you cannot survive with pure cannons; the other side would adapt into cyborgs, and you won't live past 15 minutes. In FFA, it's common to bet on a single branch, paying off with quicker research, and trying to avoid enemies who have direct counter (expecting them to die to somebody else), instead of producing a balanced but more expensive and tech-consuming army. But it's also normal for such bet to fail.

2) Yes, flame bombs are very tough. They are also harder to research, as they have advanced flamer technology as pre-requisites; H.E.A.P. bombs are also quite tough though, not to be underestimated.

3) Yes, anti-air defense is something cannons are explicitly weak at; cannons are slow and dummy but powerful ground weapons. Flak cannons are the best thing cannon branch offers (they are upgraded by cannon upgrades). If you employ machineguns as anti-personnel weapon, you're enjoying whirlwinds (with own set of flak upgrades, and with enough of them they are overally stronger than flak cannons, as it's all at the cost of extra research). If you use flamers as anti-personnel weapon, then you're left with Flak.

4) Compared to that, rocket branch has an excellent counter for bombs, namely the Sunburst Air-to-Air. They not only have a very high DPS against VTOLs, but also bombs cannot fire back (so you don't need to pay for rebuilding them after the attack), and moreover you can engage bombers at a safe distance from your base (or even set patrols).

5) For that reason, it might be worth it to put flak cannons on hovertanks. You can engage from safe distance, micromanage to get out of fire (spread tanks around, quickly leave burning ground), and also focus fire to get more kills. Requires some skill though.

6) Your next closest option is Stormbringer laser. It's the most powerful AA weapon in game, and also it doesn't have any weapon pre-requisites. That is, you don't have to research machineguns or rockets or flamers or cannons to get lasers, just fundamental research - neural synapse and sensor upgrades. So, even though it's quite high-tech, not much effort is actually required to grab it. Worth trying at least unless you use rockets and have avengers/vindicators for free.

7) And yeah, you're doing it the hard way through turtling and artillery. Against all those dummy AIs, you should be able to win much earlier (rush a couple of neighbors with mg viper wheels, take their oils, have triple income and quickly outpower the rest).

Hi, welcome to this forum prince blueblood.

First thing first, you can't play a FFA with a challenging AI and hope to win all your games.

You said you felt helpless against those vtols and asking us for a solution you could have applied. But what if I was saying you that you were helpless at that point ?

The pit is a map with plenty of oil in the center, roughly 40% of your power source should come from the "pit". This is if you fight it right and battle for it. This is if the oil is shared evenly, most likely one player will take the lead in that department and end up doubling his own power capacity. Also the pit is a huge region with very few pressure reaching the opposite enemy bases. As an effect of this, it's relatively safe to collapse on one of your neighbor as it expose you only to the other neighbor. If it succeed, you end-up quite quickly with 2 bases and twice the power production.

This is likely what happend to your opponent, he took the center, collapsed on his weakest neighbor, took his base and then had 3 time more power to spend in research then you had. 15 minutes later, when all that extra power translated in a new high tech vtol fleet, the game was already done. No matter what you could have done to react at that point.

Thanks NoQ, tried the almost same scenario and decides to FFA again but branching to Rocketry as well.

Sunburst AA on VTOL are quite good for taking down another VTOL, but still, without reaching good defensive structures research (no bastion), I'm forced to play offensively... And in the end, I forgot to guard my other flank and getting smashed by (ironic I know), the MC nullbot who come en masse with cannon tanks...

Danggumit! at least this is a statisfying and quite funny defeat as my mixed tanks get smashed by almost pure cannon forces (with some assault guns sprinkled)... WHY OH WHY I FORGOT TO BUILD SOME HOWITZERS?!?