Warzone 2100 Forums

Hello All,

first of all, great work in bringing warzone to a larger potential audience than ever before. I started up 2.0.6 after downloading & installing, to be pleasantly surprised by a skirmish save from an earlier GPL version waiting for me.
I lost 2 days falling in love with the game for the 4th time, I think.

I then updated to 2.0.8_RC1, jolly good stuff. Only problem I've had is with grim's mod, but I posted about that elsewhere.
After reading Kreuvf's post, downloading WDG explorer from one of wz.de's filemirrors, and gathering expanded WZs and WDGs, I went about working out how to convert my old favourite maps to work on 2.0.x.

Thank you Kreuvf for the highly enlightening tutorial that blackNEXUS posted on the German boards; I looked up and google translated the german version too, because I still wasn't entirely clear on exactly where certain things went.

That tutorial got me about 90% of the way, but the wording confused me slightly. I worked out from comparisons of other maps in WZ format exactly how to organize the directory structure of the WZ. It really is quite simple once you understand it, well done for that too.

Anyway, I decided that since I could repackage most maps, I should now go about repackaging my favourite mods too.

After a similar process of comparison and scouring these forums and wikis and docs project for information, I eventually guessed that little had to change between .WDG and .WZ, apart from changing all filenames from the WDG to lowercase. My test mod was NoResearch, but this contained a hashnamed .slo and and a .vlo.

Thanks to Kage's advice, (http://localhost/convert/phpBB3/viewtop ... 7685#p7685) I checked inside the VLO and found a SCRIPT function at the top, calling (presumably) the SLO file, alltech.slo. I renamed the VLO and SLO files both to alltech.slo and vlo. Unfortunately, I still had no idea if the root of the .WZ file would be the correct location for them. No other, empty folders were extracted from the WDG, so I hoped they were ok there. (I haven't tested yet, but after further comparison I would guess that they might go in multiplay/script).

I packaged this lowercased, name-fixed mod into a .WZ, and, after using known-to-work Kreuvf's Rebalancing Mod to find out where to put the mods (do all game mods have to go in global?), I ran the noresearch mod from [main]/mods/global. In a way, I achieved success: where previously there was no effect on the test match; now, it would CTD during loading the game, with no offer of a minidump.

But this is still not my eventual aim.

So I ask you, is the underlying problem:

1)Incorrectly located SLO and VLO files, causing warzone to crash when it doesn't find them?
or
2)a change in the VLO/SLO scripting language, or the language of the numerous txt files, causing warzone to crash when it can't understand the VLO/SLO/TXT files?
  and if it is 2), then
        a)can I find all the necessary information to update the scripts, on the wikis and forums?

having also afterwards attempted to repackage Limits Mod, which only contains multilim.slo and vlo, I am tempted to guess at possibility 2), as limitsmod.wz produces interesting symptoms:
when it is enabled, I can run a skirmish match whihc loads successfully, but if I go to the structure limits menu pre-match, the game crashes.
I played with limitsmod enabled on a level called 4c-crossfire, which has more than 30 resources inside each very large base. with the limits mod enabled, i was able to build on all the oil resources, about 34 of them I think. without limitsmod, I could only build a total of 30 derricks, as per usual max limits. However on the build menu, I could not build any more than 5 research facilities, even with the mod, which normally allows up to 15 facilities.


Incidentally, if I am successful, then am I allowed to upload this to the forums for everyone's benefit (unless, as I suspect, repackaging has been done regularly and independently offline) in which case, what can be done to resurrect important mods like noresearch and limits? Unfortunately, authorship aside, I don't think maps or with custom tilesets and such can often be recovered without the original files the WDG was made from: often a $93F2C8F.pcx will offer no clue as to its intended location, unless there is a definite location for certain files?

Thanks,
medavox


PS I enclose the map 4c-Crossfire, plus a minidump for the crash with limits mod on the Structure Limits menu.

Hi i downloaded your limits mod and after checking the slo & vlo, repackaging the files and checking debug info i could not find any problems - the file loctions were correct and i dont think any changes in scripting language would cause it to be incompatible.

I think the problem may be that some of the structure limits may be too high and/or the structure limits set in rules.slo are interferring with the limits set in multilim.slo.

Anyway ive enclosed a working limits mod(for me anyway) that adds just the fortresses to the limits screen, additionally when i get some more spare time ill check your noresearch mod which ive personally had working under 2.0.7. 

---------->

* I think this is a long neglected area & critically important to WZ's future.

* There are some who have expressed the opinion that prior to the Source Liberation there were NO significant WZ Mods........BULL CHIT !!!!!

* There were / are AWESOME WZ mods that have been shuttled off to the margins these last few years.

* Some mods (like Speedys, RSGods, Laws245s, Lord Apocs, NiKeRs, Stratadrakes & 4nE's) are not only seminal but have also been used as a basis for what present POST Liberation work has been done.

* Another opinion that was been expressed that is somewhat lacking in logic is that there is plenty of room right now for modders to proceed....

* OH hell no !

* How can that hold water in the midst of instability & flux in the base ?

* WHO in their right mind wants to invest hundreds of hours of toil only to have it rendered fundamentally obsolete (unplayable without additional toil) within a matter of months ?

* Anyhow, IMHO, this topic deserves, much more attention & the fact that you guys are trying to remedy the situation merits support & kudos.

* I salute your efforts.

- Cheers, RV

Rman Virgil wrote: * Another opinion that was been expressed that is somewhat lacking in logic is that there is plenty of room right now for modders to proceed....

* OH hell no !

* How can that hold water in the midst of instability & flux in the base ?

I agree. I do not expect many people to do large scale mod efforts until 2.1 is released, at the earliest. It should be a stable, well ported and on a good foundation, much more so than 2.0, but the tools may be lacking still. That is what we aim to solve toward 2.2. See http://bwiki.wz2100.net/roadmap:start

1)case sensitive file/directory names.
2)delimeter issues.  (make sure you are using unix style, not windows style for paths and such)
3)directory structure

There are some wdg conversion utillites (again, check ML, Rodzilla made it), but that will still leave you with files that have strange sounding names.
I suppose it would be possible to reverse the hash file name into something you and & I would understand, but that hasn't been made, and I doubt anyone would want to.

Your best bet, is to find a source code for a wdg, and see how that is made.  Don't compile it, you have everything you need, you just have to manually stick it where it goes.

This is what I have read on the ML, and other forums, and by looking at the source code.  I haven't made a mod myself yet.

Deathguise wrote:I think the problem may be that some of the structure limits may be too high and/or the structure limits set in rules.slo are interferring with the limits set in multilim.slo.

Thanks for the suggestion, it's something I would never have thought of.

Deathguise wrote:Anyway ive enclosed a working limits mod(for me anyway) that adds just the fortresses to the limits screen, additionally when i get some more spare time ill check your noresearch mod which ive personally had working under 2.0.7.

Again, thanks, i think it may be to do with the fact I've been using 2.0.8_RC1 to test it, and I could be suffering from a new bug? >_:()? will the new tools support the old format?? thanks for the salute , although obviously deathguise deserves it more. I just asked questions.

Per wrote:I do not expect many people to do large scale mod efforts until 2.1 is released, at the earliest. It should be a stable, well ported and on a good foundation, much more so than 2.0, but the tools may be lacking still. That is what we aim to solve toward 2.2.

So the plan is to create new work, to supplant and replace the older (possibly unusable) mods? probably easier in the long term. Graphics may also improve, rendering old addons like extra weapons a little obsolete looking.

However I also think Rman is right, there is a vast collection of mods scattered across the internet (vtol's site go shut down? when did that happen?? I used to go there for maps a lot) which deserve not to be forgotten. Ironically, despite  my intense dislike of Gamespy's slow throttling of warzone's online play, then the forums, I think fileplanet is the easiest place to find some of the old work. Certainly it was one of few that I, as a community n00b, ever managed to acquire shiny new toys from.

thanks for the help, support and suggestions. I'm off to try the repackaged mods with 2.0.7
medavox

PS I really like luke's idea of designable defense structures . Just a thought.

____________________________________________________________________________
buginator posted another reply just before i posted this, so here's my reply to him:
by the delimiters, do you mean that windows uses a different kind of newline than UNIX, which is why the GPL and other UNIX-origin readmes don't open correctly in notepad? I've always wondered about those, never really investigated before.

I'm assuming ML is mailing list (sorry I'm a bit of a noob with those), and by rodzilla's do you mean this one i found on google:-
http://osdir.com/ml/games.warzone.devel/?
it only has dates up to december 2006, though, so...?

the only warzone mailing list I'm on at the moment is the one coming from here, about new releases. There must be a developer one, right? I'm answering my own question as I go. Apologies.
you must mean this one, linked from about>development (silly me):-
https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev/

All information is good information, I think. I will investigate both MLs further tomorrow.

thanks,
medavox

medavox wrote: buginator posted another reply just before i posted this, so here's my reply to him:
by the delimiters, do you mean that windows uses a different kind of newline than UNIX, which is why the GPL and other UNIX-origin readmes don't open correctly in notepad? I've always wondered about those, never really investigated before.

I'm assuming ML is mailing list (sorry I'm a bit of a noob with those), and by rodzilla's do you mean this one i found on google:-
http://osdir.com/ml/games.warzone.devel/?
it only has dates up to december 2006, though, so...?

the only warzone mailing list I'm on at the moment is the one coming from here, about new releases. There must be a developer one, right? I'm answering my own question as I go. Apologies.
you must mean this one, linked from about>development (silly me):-
https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev/

All information is good information, I think. I will investigate both MLs further tomorrow.

thanks,
medavox

I mean that windows uses c:\dir\file.  Unix uses c/fir/file.
Yeah, ML = mailing list.  This one: https://mail.gna.org/public/warzone-dev/

Sorry I was not a bit more verbose.
The name of the file is wdgload.

Well once I get my Laptop I will see what I can do to catch up on some of the things going on, I was always pissed that WZ really lacked any real balance in there T3 units, and in Multiplayer games you basicly made only a handful of unit types depending on your starting tech. If you did T1 you made Twin MG halftracks vipers, then changed over to Lancers. If you started T3 it was a mix of HC Mantis Hover or Tracks, and stayed with them for most of your game unless you really turtled, or until you for Scourge or Rail Guns. You had so many untested weapons in T3 that it really sucked once you got to know what weapons and bodys do what, and the fact most of them were a waste of power, and time to make in Multiplayer.

Oh whats Kreuvf's Rebalancing Mod ? Thats one of the things I started doing in VTOLFUN and tried getting more of that worked into 1.12 patch but that was also around the time I started looking at other games, and didnt think we still had enough players to make it worth putting a lot of hours into major fixes like that. Plus you still had the speed hack problems on Gamespy so multiplayer games started to go down hill and thats where I had most of my fun, and it was all but a joke to play on there when I quit playing.

Also whats still out there for the old days RJ, I know I had most of my sh*t backed up and everyone elses, only problem is my wife got most of my WZ CD's from NEWST, and Pumpkin2 and I am not talking to her right now. I was the pack rat when it came to WZ MOD's or Maps. Oh and that is sad that VTOL's site went down he was a good player and a semi good map maker.


4nE

Buginator wrote:Yeah, ML = mailing list.  This one: https://mail.gna.org/public/warzone-dev/

Ah-HA! a veritable treasure trove of helpful snippets. Thanks! Now to make sense of it all. google is my friend
Can I edit the new wiki, if/when I have time? I'm aware there's also a lot of good info still floating around on the old wiki too. Who knows what I might achieve in a bit of spare time... If the docs are up to it (in terms of being in a central location, and easy to understand), then that may encourage future modders, hopefully. Even if the information (on how to do stuff, standards etc) actually changes while it's still being centralised, then it's still a start, right?
Usually once I've learned how to do something in a game(modding it or otherwise), I make .txt tutorial for myself, in case I come back to it much later, and have to reteach myself.
If I'm writing them for me, why not share?

RBL-4NiK8r wrote:Oh whats Kreuvf's Rebalancing Mod ?

Something kreuvf has done quite recently, well done to him. index.php?topic=942.0

RBL-4NiK8r wrote:

Also whats still out there for the old days RJ, I know I had most of my sh*t backed up and everyone elses, only problem is my wife got most of my WZ CD's from NEWST, and Pumpkin2 and I am not talking to her right now. I was the pack rat when it came to WZ MOD's or Maps. Oh and that is sad that VTOL's site went down he was a good player and a semi good map maker.


4nE

* 4nE... I have some but I think between Coyote, Bronco & the German community warzone.de most everything has been preserved

- Cheers, RV

Ive had a quick check of your noresearch mod and noticed that alltech.slo and alltech.vlo appear to be modified versions of rules.slo and rules.vlo, so what ive done is made a quick test mod (that should research everything) for you that has modified .wrf files (.wrf files essentially tell Warzone what to load and when to load it) that will look for alltech.slo &.vlo rather than rules.slo &.vlo.

medavox wrote:Again, thanks, i think it may be to do with the fact I've been using 2.0.8_RC1 to test it, and I could be suffering from a new bug? >_<

No problem and i think whatever works under 2.0.7 should work under 2.0.8.

Also i highly recommend taking a look at lav_coyote25's document project although some of the info is not relevent to the warzone resurrection builds.

RBL-4NiK8r wrote: Oh and that is sad that VTOL's site went down he was a good player and a semi good map maker.
4nE

here is all the links (some are broken) that we have.  and vtols is not gone....

http://www.wzlinkturret.dk/

lav_coyote25 wrote:

here is all the links (some are broken) that we have.  and vtols is not gone....

http://www.wzlinkturret.dk/

I had that saved in my email a few days ago, and yes I see vtol's site is still up, and he seemed to be very busy after I stopped playing the game, I always did like the guy even if he did like to speed hack under other names.

4nE

Well once I get my Laptop I will see what I can do to catch up on some of the things going on, I was always pissed that WZ really lacked any real balance in there T3 units, and in Multiplayer games you basicly made only a handful of unit types depending on your starting tech. If you did T1 you made Twin MG halftracks vipers, then changed over to Lancers. If you started T3 it was a mix of HC Mantis Hover or Tracks, and stayed with them for most of your game unless you really turtled, or until you for Scourge or Rail Guns. You had so many untested weapons in T3 that it really sucked once you got to know what weapons and bodys do what, and the fact most of them were a waste of power, and time to make in Multiplayer.

yes, iam with u. well i dont know Kreuvf's Rebalancing Mod but i did something similar too : ).
T1 Balancer 1.0a ^^... its atm only for the ori. 1.10 but i convert it soon.
it change a few weapons too but the main thing is the changed res. tree.
its only for t1 no bases (coz auto res text is not changed) but i think thats np... t1 is the best : ).

www.warzone-2100.com
click on the link page there and u will find vtols page.

RBL-4NiK8r wrote: Well once I get my Laptop I will see what I can do to catch up on some of the things going on,    .......

* 4nE your probably one of the best peeps to talk to about my current focus with your MP gaming background & Mod experience-goals.

* Here's my basic premise.

* The original campaign was built on "Asymetric Warfare Principles" (AWP) which was a big part of its captivating gameplay.

* This is fairly straight-foward to build in SP scriptomatically.

* We're following a similar path in building the new SP CAM - "WZ 2200".

* My contention is that "The Asymetric Warfare" GPMs of CAM never translated to MP (I don't count "Truck Rushes" - standard or flying)..... because, in the absence of scripting it's not easily achievable.

* I also believe that Pumpkin's "ECM" schema was gonna be implemented to take WZ MP down that road of AWP evolution.

* Now I know your "VTOL FUN" (& work on v.1.12 with Strata) were attempts down a parallel path by way of a rebalancing (rock-paper-scissors).

* Here let me use this chess analogy to make this brief.

* I would like to able to do the equivalent of the "Queens Gambit" in Wz against an equally strong player who's not made an egregious mistake (elliminating the whole "Fools Mate" bull chit win) and still have a fair chance winning endgame.... (the "Queens Gambit" creates an "Asymetric Warfare" condition, in other words.)

* Does that make sense ?

* Do you think it a worthy goal ?

* Basically it is to make MP winning tacs less narrowly predictable & afford more opportunities to win by means other than sheer overwhelming #s of select units....

* Your thoughts on this would be very helpful to me in working on  WZ 2200..

- Thanks, Rman