Warzone 2100 Forums

Can someone humble himself slightly and DO something about the absurd targeting! Two lines of scourge hps at right angles fronted by a line of pulse towers (to handle borgs). Six cannon tracks make it forward until they are siting right under the towers. The pulses can't get at them, so the tanks tear the lines of scourge hps to pieces - none of whom fire because none is closest to the enemy.

This is plain stupidity. So can the jackass who dreamed this up either fix it or stand back and let someone with a little more common sense do it.

Bendip has elsewhere referred to the insanity that is WZ now. Myopic is a better word. A lot of little egos jostling for the glory they can't find in their professional lives?

zydonk wrote:Can someone humble himself slightly and DO something about the absurd targeting! Two lines of scourge hps at right angles fronted by a line of pulse towers (to handle borgs). Six cannon tracks make it forward until they are siting right under the towers. The pulses can't get at them, so the tanks tear the lines of scourge hps to pieces - none of whom fire because none is closest to the enemy.

I suggest you make a detailed bug report with a savegame that allows someone to reproduce the problem.

zydonk wrote:This is plain stupidity. So can the jackass who dreamed this up either fix it or stand back and let someone with a little more common sense do it.

Nobody is standing in your way. Go fix it!

zydonk wrote:Bendip has elsewhere referred to the insanity that is WZ now. Myopic is a better word. A lot of little egos jostling for the glory they can't find in their professional lives?

If that is your idea of how to motivate people, I think you have a problem.

Per wrote:

zydonk wrote:Can someone humble himself slightly and DO something about the absurd targeting! Two lines of scourge hps at right angles fronted by a line of pulse towers (to handle borgs). Six cannon tracks make it forward until they are siting right under the towers. The pulses can't get at them, so the tanks tear the lines of scourge hps to pieces - none of whom fire because none is closest to the enemy.

I suggest you make a detailed bug report with a savegame that allows someone to reproduce the problem.

zydonk wrote:This is plain stupidity. So can the jackass who dreamed this up either fix it or stand back and let someone with a little more common sense do it.

Nobody is standing in your way. Go fix it!

zydonk wrote:Bendip has elsewhere referred to the insanity that is WZ now. Myopic is a better word. A lot of little egos jostling for the glory they can't find in their professional lives?

If that is your idea of how to motivate people, I think you have a problem.

1. It's not a bug prob - it's a daft amendment to something that worked.

2. Ditto - not about fixing, it's about restoring something that worked.

3. The existence of the prob should be sufficient motivation. A little stick helps, though.

The main reason more haven't complained, I suppose, is because so few users of 31 play the game extensively. Ten-minute mp quickies involve no more than a few factories, some mg wheelies and a big big rush.

Digging your heels in, Per, every time someone says boo about the mess that is 31 gameplay is not the way forward. The fact is these serious gameplay issues exist and something has to be done about them. But whether you or anyone else involved can be bothered to clean up the mess you are making - because that is not fun - ultimately doesn't matter. I say again - and again - 239 is perfectly adequate as a final version of WZ. I press these arguments in the hope that some proper advances can be made over 239, but if this doesn't happen then so what...

Soooo.... You can't be bothered to help debug the problems, you won't help fix them, and you think 2.3.9, which will always be available, is perfectly fine, but you still want to whine incessantly and insult the developers who try to make other versions of the game? Does that sum up your motivations about right?

@zydonk if you like 2.3.9, good but if the Dev's will continue to make new versions shut-up. Thanks Dev's

Per wrote:Soooo.... You can't be bothered to help debug the problems, you won't help fix them, and you think 2.3.9, which will always be available, is perfectly fine, but you still want to whine incessantly and insult the developers who try to make other versions of the game? Does that sum up your motivations about right?

you have never worked in the games industry and the reason why is a developer would never put in a system were a bases defences are 100 percent effective which means all them players who spam row after row how howitsers now have unbreachable bases due to the unit limit not only is that game breaking it but the game is now very very laggy now in or out of mutiplayer and i have a top of the range system gtx580 ect ect with top drivers so its clearly your coding thats gone wrong and also intill you fix the mutiplayer i will never host 3.1 games and keep doing 2.3 because 2.3 acaully works.. do not "fix" something that didnt need to be fixed if i had to choose between paying for 2.3 or 3.1 you know what ill choose... and id pay triple price

zydonk wrote: I say again - and again - 239 is perfectly adequate as a final version of WZ. I press these arguments in the hope that some proper advances can be made over 239, but if this doesn't happen then so what...

I agree with you, random explosions and teleporting units are much better than the good synch of 3.1.

The main reason more haven't complained, I suppose, is because so few users of 31 play the game extensively. Ten-minute mp quickies involve no more than a few factories, some mg wheelies and a big big rush.

And that can't be applyed to 2.3.9? And i don't see any changes in balance that caused more rushes in mp.

Uhm, can we keep this thread focussed on 3.1 RC 3 bugs pls?

No, not really, bugs need to be at the bug tracker instead (:

Per wrote:Soooo.... You can't be bothered to help debug the problems, you won't help fix them, and you think 2.3.9, which will always be available, is perfectly fine, but you still want to whine incessantly and insult the developers who try to make other versions of the game? Does that sum up your motivations about right?

Tiresome to repeat, Per - they are not bugs, but inept progging. I daresay "only closest shoots" was tried by almost every RTS dev and dumped because of the obvious limitations. Best solution I have seen is the mod for Earth 2150, where player can switch between closet and weakest, but with every weapon operating on the same principle. (Come to think of it, perhaps you should take a look at the E2150 mods. They are very intelligent and have done a lot to improve that game - way more difficult, of course.)

My point, simply, is this. There are modifications to v3.1 that are clearly inferior to the implementations in 239, esp vehicle movement, targeting and the render. The fact that many mods will not play under 3.1 is a crippling limitation - but we will jump that hurdle once the more glaring inadequacies of 31 are remedied. I assume that the more pressing problems can be corrected by reinstating the 239 code, and I assume the reason this is not being done - in the interest of WZ itself - is because personal pride is at stake. In my experience, getting techies to admit to a mistake is probably harder that getting the Pope in Rome to admit to one.

So less bluster, Per, and more doing. I pursue all this out of regard for WZ itself and the natural desire to see that best done for it.

zydonk wrote:My point, simply, is this. There are modifications to v3.1 that are clearly inferior to the implementations in 239, esp vehicle movement, targeting and the render.

I love the new renderer. We just need to replace the remaining old textures. In particular the building textures which are super-low-res appear totally out of place in the campaign, given they are on a much smoother looking terrain.
The movement is clearly better, units tend to get stuck at corners much less; and they sure did clog in 2.3.x, too.
And the targeting makes it more challenging than just placing the same defense layout everywhere, as placing a bunker in a sink will now make it pretty much useless, for example. With 2.3.x, you would place the same blueprint everywhere, how boring. Now you actually have to think about the terrain when fighting. Oh noes!
As for the other targeting issue - the "doomedness prediction" - its probably just a few hours of work and testing to find a better solution. You should really give it a try, in ai.cpp.

zydonk wrote:The fact that many mods will not play under 3.1 is a crippling limitation

No, it is a consequence of progress. They need to be updated from version 2 to version 3, so what? Ever tried running an Mac OS 9 program on an iPhone?

So I'll stick to 3.x, and I want to say thank you to all those who work on Warzone instead of just bitching around. You are welcome to continue to work on 2.3.x I guess.

zydonk wrote: So less bluster, Per, and more doing.

Ironic.
Can't you think that the devs have to do stuff in real life too? They don't get paid for what they do, so don't complain if they can't make many changes fast.

zydonk wrote:I assume that the more pressing problems can be corrected by reinstating the 239 code

Not easily, there are years of development between 2.3 and 3.1, and Warzone isn't the best example of well-separated, encapsulated code.

zydonk wrote: So less bluster, Per, and more doing. I pursue all this out of regard for WZ itself and the natural desire to see that best done for it.

first you say you don't like the changes then you say that per needs more doing.
simple solution is to do it yourself zydonk