Confusion - Units are Manned or Unmanned?

[Rman Virgil]

.

My final 2 cents in this thread.

Personally, creating your own fresh new WZ stuff to play with is infinitely more satisfying than debating the ambiguous intent of others creations.

The key for me here is the power of the 2500 year old storytelling trope of "Man vs Machine" the surface of which is barely scratched in the Pumpkin canon as dramatic fiction out of which game play is grown and thus out of this whole shebang Per's input on the possibility of true MP Faction game play in future developments has the most value to me as a creator in this WZ sandbox.

The WZ Comic was distributed on the WZ 2100 Retail discs and was officially sanctioned by Pumpkin who aptly called themselves WZ Creators.

When I directly asked WZ Creator's Lead Designer / Programmer / Engineer in the summer of 1999 for permission to add to their canon I was specifically given that permission in writing and by public declaration (as well the tools to do so on a disk that was mailed to me from their Bath, England studio), an official sanction if ever there was one, to do whatever we saw fit in our vision artistically that expanded on their original story and all derived from that game play wise. That's a fact and thus where I am coming from and have since that day (& why I also jointly, directly, one on one, worked with 'em for 5 years to get the source code liberated from Eidos - & later, the GPL exception clause).

Couple last thoughts -

Though not called the "Synaptic Link", it already exists in RL. Also, purely drone war machines already exist (UGVs,UAVs, UWVs, MUAVs) and their engineering goals and design parameters are entirely different than what was presented in these discussions as well as is the Warfare type which is the complete opposite of WW 2, Battle of the Bulge, with robotic vehicles. These are facts too.

- Outta Dodge to work on my fresh WZ toys, RV

.

[Crymson]

The guide doesn't mention which Bodies/Propulsions are Manned (human operated), and which are Unmanned (Computer Controlled). As a result even experienced members are having contradicting opinions..

You can pretend they are whatever, since, it doesn't matter at all as far as the game is concerned.

[Tucalipe]

> Interesting discussion going on here. I just can't not* say my view on that

> On all strategy games (except Blizzard's), I treat all units as they were manned/human. I don't sacrifice units, or send them to their death. Not only because it would be suicide if it were a real strategy, but because, usually, units that lasted longer tend to gather bonuses and/or experience, which in turn make them more powerful.

> Now taking this to WZ's context. I can't remember any proofs/sentences/sequences that say that all the vehicles are AI controlled. I can, however point a few things that point they are manned. Team Alpha flying to their base. There are two seats on the transports cockpit. So at least TWO people are there. Or the experience thing. When you recycle the unit, its driver retains the experience, while if it gets destroyed, the driver dies and the experience is lost. All bodies have windshields or viewports. There is (as someone mentioned) an upgrade that switches manual loading to automatic loading. The synaptic link sequences show humans wearing power-suits which are taken into battle. And there might be a few more I may have missed.
> When they put an AI core on a vehicle, it can probably be there just to help the driver aim, drive, collate data, and other things, just like there's an autopilot on airplanes.

> Just my opinion ^^

> Now, on a side note: If all the vehicles are manned, imagine how frigthening having your power suit become unresponsive and suddenly start acting on its own? If it were a ground vehicle, you can just eject the manhole and run away from the controlled tank.

[TVR]

Has anyone ever, ever thought about what exactly the NEXUS Intruder Virus does?

If it can control your vehicle autonomously, why exactly would there be a need for a human pilot in the first place?

To enjoy the ride, but can't override? And then be killed if the vehicle is destroyed?

AI brain unit control explains the existence of NEXUS Resistance Circuits, human pilot doesn't.

[Tucalipe]

> Think of NEXUS Resistance Circuits as your home computer's antivirus and firewall. You are a human, aren't you? And yet, you have "Resitance Circuits" on your computer. Well, can't you override a virus if it eats your files and destroys your OS?

[TVR]

That's a very, very inaccurate analogy.

The only software protection against arbitrary code execution provided by this Linux distro is obfuscated password and general incompatibilities.

But I always have control over the power button, failing that, the power switch on the PSU, or the powerbar, and even if they are some how jammed, I can go to the fuse and physically destroy the connection.

Understand the basic relation? If there was a human pilot, the most a virus could do is render the vehicle inoperable, not 'absorb' it against the will of the person with control of the power switch.

[Zarel]

But I always have control over the power button, failing that, the power switch on the PSU, or the powerbar, and even if they are some how jammed, I can go to the fuse and physically destroy the connection.

Quoted for emphasis.

[Rman Virgil]

.

I neglected to provide this material earlier, so here it be.

My core position stated in my last post is based on Pumpkin Primary Source material, some of which I have quoted verbatim below.

I resisted using any typographical underscoring for emphasis.

"You are weak flesh-things. I am strong and have many parts."

"Nexus then removed itself from the system, destroying its memory banks, and removing all traces of its external connections."

"We are not sure what Nexus is or who or what is directing it."

"Initial research links the Nexus Intruder Program with the Reed Corporation, the developer of the synaptic link."

"We have ascertained that Nexus supplied the New Paradigm with most of its technology. Whatever Nexus is, it's more than a computer parasite."

"It has technology and weapons. It knows about us, and it's not friendly."

"The Synaptic Link was developed by the Reed Corporation in conjunction with the US Military."

"The synaptic link allows for almost instantaneous transfer of thought from human operators to vehicle control and guidance systems."

"The synaptic link is fitted into the base of the skull circling the spinal column."

"The link has a hi-speed data transfer port that plugs into any computer system."

"More importantly the development of the synaptic link made the creation of cyborgs possible."

"Early attempts at power suits for individual soldiers failed as they proved to be slow and unresponsive."

"The synaptic link allowed soldiers to be placed in power suits that they controlled as easily as their own bodies. "

"Power suits allowed infantry to function effectively on the battlefields of the 21st Century."

"Unfortunately, this technology has fallen into the hands of the New Paradigm. It is imperative that you research and develop synaptic link technologies."

"This Nexus Intruder Program is a self-mutating computer parasite. This makes it difficult to eradicate from systems once it has been identified."

"We have been unable to ascertain it's ultimate goal or function. In its initial form it seeks out and isolates sections of memory from the rest of the invaded system. It then begins to mutate itself and data structures, effectively reprogramming the system from within."

"Further analysis was prevented by the manual shutdown of the system by our technicians to prevent additional contamination by the Nexus Intruder Program."

"However, the spread of the Nexus Intruder Program was not checked by New Paradigm. We need to capture New Paradigm's core systems to further investigate Nexus and determine its origins."

"Commander, you are to curtail the New Paradigm's activities in this sector and locate their main base."

"Warriors of The Collective, more intruders are entering our territory."

"They are not part of the machine."

"Warriors of The Collective, attack and destroy kill all who resist the machine."

"Attack! Erase their presence from this area!"

"Warriors of The Collective, we are ready to destroy the intruders who pollute our lands."

"Those of the Project are not of the machine. They have been denied its blessing. "

"We who have embraced the power of the machine have a destiny to sweep away such weak creatures."

"They shall fall before the might of The Collective."

"Attack and destroy all who resist the machine."

"Attack!"

"Warriors of the Collective, Nexus has given us the power of the machine so that we can destroy all that oppose us."

"Nexus now asks us to crush the Project."

"Cleanse and destroy!!"

"Analysis indicates that these systems were part of the control system for the NASDA satellites."

"It's now certain that Nexus was responsible for The Collapse."

"During the early stages of the Collapse, NASDA technicians switched off the infected systems in order to isolate the spread of Nexus."

" This seems to have prevented the LasSats from firing during the counterstrikes."

"The ensuing nuclear-magnetic pulses wiped clean large amounts of NASDA's memory banks, shattering its core processor, and sent shockwaves blasting through Nexus."

"Nexus was fried as whole sections of its consciousness were obliterated in the counterstrikes."

"Analysis of NASDA Central leaves no doubt that The Collective has introduced the Nexus Intruder Virus to it."

"The nuclear reactor was going to be used to power a vast network of pre-Collapse computer systems."

"Ah, Commander, so good of you to join us here at Nexus base."

"It was very useful having Gamma Team set up here in the mountains."

"Their absorption was such a pleasure."

"Thank you for all those useful technologies you've recovered."

"You and not those fools in the New Paradigm and the Collective."

"I'm now activating all your synaptic links so that your forces can meld with Nexus."

"Your forces are now mine! Welcome to Nexus."

"Commander, you're proving to be more resilient than I thought."

"Such a pity that you refused to join me earlier."

"But no matter, as you'll not be here much longer."

"After much searching and reprogramming, I've finally got all my systems back on-line."

"Once I destroyed the world with nuclear fire to clear the way for my cybernetic future."

"I now intend to further shape the world into my own image, by surgically removing unwanted growths like yourself."

"My Laser Satellites are now powering up. I intend to test them on you first, Commander!"

"The Reed Corporation was founded by Dr Allan Reed. In 2080, Dr Reed landed a contract with the US Military to develop the synaptic link technology."

"After patenting the synaptic link five years later, Dr Reed continued his researches into cybernetics."

"His goal this time was to allow transfer of human consciousness into data streams that could meld with computer technologies. While in Cyberspace the operator's bodies were kept in immersion tanks."

"Backed again by the military, Dr Reed began work on the NEXUS Intruder Program. After three years with little progress, the military abandoned the Nexus Project and cut Dr Reed's funding."

"Reports from the time claim that Dr Reed was furious and vowed to have his revenge on all who got in his way."

"It appears that Dr Reed may have succeeded in his goals and completed the Nexus Intruder Program."

"The similarity between NEXUS and Dr Reed is striking."

(the narative is inturrupted by the nexus virus at this point.)

"Such an interesting history lesson. Now allow me to bring you up to date."

"The NEXUS Intruder Program was created in order to control fools like you."

"It's very simple for me to infiltrate your systems and take them over. It's so simple, in fact, that you wouldn't even know I'm there. That is until I activate parts of myself etched into your core systems."

"Let's start by activating NEXUS in your core systems and see what happens!"

//R-Sys-SpyTurret Scrambler Turret
RES_SY_ST1_MSG1 "New Systems Turret Available"
RES_SY_ST1_MSG2 "Synaptic Link Scrambler technology"
RES_SY_ST1_MSG3 "Electronically attacks and disrupts enemy structures"
RES_SY_ST1_MSG4 "Steals technology from enemies"

//R-Sys-SpyTurret-Upgrade01 Improved Scrambler
RES_SY_STU1_MSG1 "Scrambler Improved"
RES_SY_STU1_MSG2 "Improvement in synaptic link technology"
RES_SY_STU1_MSG3 "Increases scrambler rate"
RES_SY_STU1_MSG4 "All scramblers upgraded automatically"

/* COMPUTERS */
//R-Comp-CommandTurret01 Command Turret
RES_C_CT1_MSG1 "New Systems Turret Available for Design"
RES_C_CT1_MSG2 "New battlefield computer system"
RES_C_CT1_MSG3 "Commander leads groups acts as factory delivery point"
RES_C_CT1_MSG4 "Body Points: High"

//R-Comp-SynapticLink Synaptic Link
RES_C_SL1_MSG1 "Computer Technology Breakthrough"
RES_C_SL1_MSG2 "Synaptic Link allows humans to interface directly with computers"
RES_C_SL1_MSG3 "Cyborgs can now be researched"
RES_C_SL1_MSG4 "New research options available"

//R-Sys-Resistance NEXUS Intruder Program
RES_C_NIP_MSG1 "Computer Technology Breakthrough"
RES_C_NIP_MSG2 "NEXUS Intruder Program analyzed"
RES_C_NIP_MSG3 "Intruder parasite isolated"
RES_C_NIP_MSG4 "Reduced chance of NEXUS take-over"

//R-Sys-Resistance-Upgrade01 NEXUS Resistance Circuits
RES_C_NRC_MSG1 "Computer Technology Breakthrough"
RES_C_NRC_MSG2 "Improved NEXUS resistance circuitry"
RES_C_NRC_MSG3 "Computer systems can now be 'ring-fenced' from NEXUS"
RES_C_NRC_MSG4 "Reduced chance of NEXUS take-over"

.

[Berg]

can the tech take over human units (scav)


Ok I could not help myself I tested it in campaign and took over human scav units
Dont know if this proves anything or you can call it cheating a bug but it works

[Black Project]

can the tech take over human units (scav)

Ok I could not help myself I tested it in campaign and took over human scav units
Dont know if this proves anything or you can call it cheating a bug but it works

If a NEXUS Link Turret take over human units = It has the capability of "Mind Control" AFAIK (Anyone heard that?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Maybe i'm wrong about that

BP

[Zarel]

That, or it's a bug.

(Hint: It's a bug.)

[Berg]

Resistance is futile




Sorry about that.
I could not resist

[Rman Virgil]

Resistance is futile




Sorry about that.
I could not resist

Berg, what they hell happened to your resistance circuits ?

- RV

[JDW]

Ok I could not help myself I tested it in campaign and took over human scav units

That's hilarious. Are those scavs any use Berg?

RV's lengthy post reminded me of a cartoon called ExoSquad. After about 46 seconds into the following video, you will see why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHKyY2DT ... re=related

And guys, remember Agent Smith (or rather just Smith, since he later became a sort of virus) in the movie The Matrix: Reloaded? Remember how he infected Bane's mind in the Matrix, a human, and then Smith answered the phone and entered Bane's body, took control of it to get to Neo in the, so called, real world? Interesting fictional concept of how a malicious software virus took control of a human, right?

Not only that but didn't they have amazing fight sequences? Hi-yah! KaPow!

Ok, that's all for now, it's nice to see everyone having fun debating.

[TVR]

"I'm now activating all your synaptic links so that your forces can meld with Nexus."

This is possibly the most relevant phrase that NEXUS says, 'your forces' being anyone still alive who has a Synaptic Link in Gamma Team.

But it is very interesting that NEXUS is now activating the link, which is not a mind control device, but merely the link between a standard human brain and computer.

This implies that each individual in Gamma Team that is still alive now supports NEXUS, voluntarily.

If it were literal mind control, then NEXUS, and by extension, computer systems in Warzone 2100 possess enough processing power to understand how an organic neural network functions. Which would beg the question of why NEXUS doesn't control each unit directly, instead of relying on remotely hacking 'weak-flesh things' to do its bidding.

One of the themes explored in Warzone 2100 is power, and the temptation of it. The New Paradigm desire to create a military dictatorship in the Western Sector, and exert a great influence over resident scavengers. The Collective are somewhat less subtle in exterminating or conscripting the locals. Both of these groups were also offered power in return for allegiance; the commander is also offered a share of this power many times.

"Such a pity that you refused to join me earlier."

However, the commander declines out of free will, and it is likely that Gamma Team was offered a variation of this.

"Join me, or I execute you immediately."

Which is very probable, as Gamma Base is completely surrounded by NEXUS. Given first-hand demonstration of its military might, I'm certain that the majority of the personnel would choose to defect for the better prospect of survival.

It's a catch-22, either NEXUS relies on conventional divide-and-conquer tactics, or the computer technology it's run on is sufficiently advanced to control even minds, therefore obsoleting the benefits of Synaptic Link.