Campaign Add-on Proposal - Need Ideas & Production Help

[Rman Virgil]

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Thanks for answering my question about that function ( I had thought it was in tiles, then I did a double take at the number 1,800 and something O_O)

You're welcome, on behalf of all who provided input on the matter.

I had another question regarding the source code. Is it possible to change the campaign entry point by mod? Or does "New Campaign" always point at the first campaign level?

You can do you're New Campaign as a mod - indeed you should do this test Cam0 that way, IMHO, because you cannot assume it will automatically be integrated into the official campaign. (Though if it's a masterpiece the Devs and community may be so inclined and the Devs disposed to do what is necessary to make it work that way which I imagine would involve, among other things, dealing with the UI Widgets.. O_O )

In any case, I've done this as a Mod before. It works just fine. I did it to the v.1.10 Pumpkin binary. If you have or can run that binary I'll send you a mission (never released) and you can de-compile my .wdg (with WdgExplorer) so you can see how it's done - file structure, assets, scripts, etc. Too much trouble for me to make it compatible with the current binary - for one, it used custom map tertiles, and those alone are a PITA to not only make compatible but also upgrade the art as well. Yea, for some things you can brand me a lazy son of a gun.

Regards, RV
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[Olrox]

Yea, for some things you can brand me a lazy son of a gun.

Well, not after all that you've already done for our little project here, methinks :rolleyes:
But we'll surely keep track of your little flaws so we can blackmail you on the future or something
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Just kidding, just kidding xD

Just for fun,
~Olrox

[Rman Virgil]

Yea, for some things you can brand me a lazy son of a gun.

Well, not after all that you've already done for our little project here, methinks :rolleyes:
But we'll surely keep track of your little flaws so we can blackmail you on the future or something
...
Just kidding, just kidding xD

Just for fun,
~Olrox

Touche & tanks ! (Pun intended.)

LOL... peeps here are gonna start thinking we're cousins.

- RV
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[Per]

I had another question regarding the source code. Is it possible to change the campaign entry point by mod? Or does "New Campaign" always point at the first campaign level?

Yes to both questions. You can override the first campaign level from a mod, and thereby make it load your campaign instead. What we really ought to do is to change the 'New Campaign' entry into a list of available campaigns. I guess this will pop up to the top of our priority list the day that there is a need for it.

[MaNGusT]

What we really ought to do is to change the 'New Campaign' entry into a list of available campaigns. I guess this will pop up to the top of our priority list the day that there is a need for it.

may be will be better to add a new entry like "Scenario" and create a folder for a custom scenarios.

[XboxJosh]

Alright, so just go ahead and overwrite Alpha Campaign? Is that what you're saying?

[Rman Virgil]

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Alright, so just go ahead and overwrite Alpha Campaign? Is that what you're saying?

No.

It doesn't "over-write".

It LOADS the files you've created instead of those in base.wz (these remain intact for a number of good reasons.)

BTW - This is exactly what member Black Project did with his very fun (IMHO) Hard Core Campaign Mode Mod in 2009 (a herculean effort too, IMHO.)

That's it. (Oh, & I'll also take that as a no thanks to my offer. *Rman bites his tongue*)

may be will be better to add a new entry like "Scenario" and create a folder for custom scenarios.

That sounds like a good idea.

One map scenarios comprised of multiple missions are more likely to be created than the whole nine yards, multiple map Cams, IMHO. (At least in my life time. I am an elder after all.)

- RV
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[XboxJosh]

I had thought Olrox was working on the map, and maybe he still is, I'm not gonna rush you .

So for now, I'm going to use a test version of the map, with just the heightfield, and just try to get it to load.

[Olrox]

I had thought Olrox was working on the map, and maybe he still is, I'm not gonna rush you .

So for now, I'm going to use a test version of the map, with just the heightfield, and just try to get it to load.

And I thought you were working on the plot. I don't wanna coordinate this, but if it's gonna be successful, we need a real coordination.

I can make the map from one day to another, with good quality, believe me. I just need more information on the main goals / mission objectives / necessary forces / etc., even if you want me to make the terrain only. This needs to be the best we can do if we ever want to even dream about making a real campaign.

Again, this project needs someone to say "It's going to be like this, and that's going to be like that. You could do this, in this way, you could do that in that way. We need to achieve this, this and this, because of that, that and that", if you know what I'm talkin' about!

Like a movie director. One doesn't just sit on those fancy chairs all day, they play a fundamental role on getting people's work to add to each other's.

~Olrox

[Rman Virgil]

Again, this project needs someone to say "It's going to be like this, and that's going to be like that. You could do this, in this way, you could do that in that way. We need to achieve this, this and this, because of that, that and that", if you know what I'm talkin' about!

Like a movie director. One doesn't just sit on those fancy chairs all day, they play a fundamental role on getting people's work to add to each other's.

~Olrox

I agree, this is all key to moving forward with such an intricate collaboration as this is.

Creating the detailed Pre-Scripting Mission Analysis Document (the template or boiler plate mentioned & linked at this thread's start) serves all these ends for all peeps involved.

I can post that template or I can post an actual example that was used to create a 4-part mission sequence. (I won't just go ahead and do it without a request to do so.)

This document serves all collaborators (story teller, scriptor, artist. musician, modder & mapper) at the same time. You also work-out changes through this doc prior to implementing which saves you from needless, bone-head, implementation revisions. (This doc is version controlled as well - very simply... nothing like SVN is called for.)

It is very much like the shooting script for a movie (good analogy Olrox) which EVERYONE participating on the movie's creation (from Director to Key Grips) works off of.

The main difference between these 2 documents is that the one used for creating a Game Mission has to be way, way, more precise in it's details because of the a.i. scripting were as in a movie you can talk to others to fill-out details not in the shooting script before each days shoot. (The only way to "talk" to the game binary in creating a campaign mission is through very, very, precise a.i. scripting.)

BTW, does...

So for now, I'm going to use a test version of the map, with just the heightfield, and just try to get it to load.

... mean you have scripts written already which you are now plugging-in specific map coordinates and then seeing if the whole thing loads and runs in-game ?

- RV
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[XboxJosh]

I had thought Olrox was working on the map, and maybe he still is, I'm not gonna rush you .

So for now, I'm going to use a test version of the map, with just the heightfield, and just try to get it to load.

And I thought you were working on the plot. I don't wanna coordinate this, but if it's gonna be successful, we need a real coordination.

I can make the map from one day to another, with good quality, believe me. I just need more information on the main goals / mission objectives / necessary forces / etc., even if you want me to make the terrain only. This needs to be the best we can do if we ever want to even dream about making a real campaign.

Again, this project needs someone to say "It's going to be like this, and that's going to be like that. You could do this, in this way, you could do that in that way. We need to achieve this, this and this, because of that, that and that", if you know what I'm talkin' about!

Like a movie director. One doesn't just sit on those fancy chairs all day, they play a fundamental role on getting people's work to add to each other's.

~Olrox

I see. However, I had thought Scorpion was working on the plot. He doesn't get on the forums much, but I'll speak with him and see what he is thinking.

As for the map, what kind of info do you need? You mention "necessary forces", I think the enemies should only have footmen, and the player should get MG Jeeps. Don't put any defensive structures on the map, other than things like walls and other stuff that will slow you down but not shoot you up. I don't think there should be any oil (Nor will the player have the factory or power gen tech), and the goals should basically be "Get from Point A to Point B without losing all of your units."

... mean you have scripts written already which you are now plugging-in specific map coordinates and then seeing if the whole thing loads and runs in-game ?

- RV
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Eh... not quite. Still trying to figure out how I'm supposed to tack the new campaign onto the front of the existing campaigns, if that makes sense...

[Olrox]

Ok, but the player will need power to produce his units after he arrived the base, to defend it. How about putting Oil drums across the map (especially on those dead-end valleys, so that the player don't feel like hes *just* wasted time entering them), so that affects how many machinegun viper wheels the player will be able to use to defend his base on the final missions?

Like I said, I need to know what the maps are going to be - I need the script (using again the analogy to movie productions) so that I know what is supposed to happen. That would be:

• How much time the player will have to arrive at the military base?
  How many/ exactly what kind of units the player must have?
  Where the player shall encounter resistance?
  How many attackers will strike the base on the defense mission?
  Should I make features everywhere, like houses and such, or just where the player may find resistance?
  Should I make bodies of water separating possible ways or making the player have to go around it?
  On which of these factors I'm free to do what I think it's best?

Knowing these things is crucial to make a coherent and cohese production, I hope you understand!

[Rman Virgil]

... mean you have scripts written already which you are now plugging-in specific map coordinates and then seeing if the whole thing loads and runs in-game ?

- RV
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Eh... not quite. Still trying to figure out how I'm supposed to tack the new campaign onto the front of the existing campaigns, if that makes sense...

Well, I understand perfectly what your saying... what I don't understand is "Why ?"

.......

Plot is like the spine of a vertebrate. Still need the rest of the anatomy to make for a living critter.

All the details raised by Olrox (and more) are the "rest of the anatomy": the complete skeleton, the organs, the circulatory and nervous systems, flesh and sinew, etc, etc.

From what I can tell in previous posts, you all have settled on the basic plot, the easiest part of this whole project. Now the real work begins for who ever is gonna write the detailed mission sequence and it is from that detailed mission sequence (as spoken to several times earlier - actually from the get go) that a.i. script-writing, map making, & modding flow in a coordinated manner.

To be perfectly honest, I only see one person here who thoroughly "gets" just how to effectively create this prequel sequence of missions.

- Regards, RV
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[XboxJosh]

Ok, but the player will need power to produce his units after he arrived the base, to defend it. How about putting Oil drums across the map (especially on those dead-end valleys, so that the player don't feel like hes *just* wasted time entering them), so that affects how many machinegun viper wheels the player will be able to use to defend his base on the final missions?

Yeah, and I didn't mean no oil at all, I just meant no oil until the player reaches the military base.

How much time the player will have to arrive at the military base?

I don't know exactly, it's supposed to be easy, so let's say either 10 minutes or no limit.

How many/ exactly what kind of units the player must have?

Perhaps 8-10 MG Jeeps for the player, as well as maybe 5 footmen?

Where the player shall encounter resistance?

Just in the "bases" where there are concentrated numbers of enemy footmen.

How many attackers will strike the base on the defense mission?

A few MG Jeeps, for sure. Maybe let us see a machinegunner cyborg somewhere in there? And of course, the footmen.

Should I make features everywhere, like houses and such, or just where the player may find resistance?

Everywhere would be preferable, but definitely more concentrated around areas of resistance.

Should I make bodies of water separating possible ways or making the player have to go around it?

That's a neat idea. See if you can make it work

On which of these factors I'm free to do what I think it's best?

Go ahead and do as you please, these are just my opinions

what I don't understand is "Why ?"

Huh? Could you rephrase this? I'm not understanding the question. (in other words, "Why what?")

[Rman Virgil]

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XboxJosh wrote: "Why ? what."

Scroll up. My post of Friday, Feb. 19, @ 12:37 AM covered the subject thoroughly - I thought. Then again, *shrug*..

- RV
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