DyDo skirmish AI: ver 2.1.1 (21 Apr 2010)

[DylanDog]

Nice! Great work!

Hovers are still slow when in group with tracks. (my artillery was destroying them easily) I do not think you fixed it succesfully

I changed the AI code and I also noticed that there are no really speed changes anyway, I fear that it is a warzone issue not an AI issue. I think the problem is the following: if a unit belongs to a group, even if the AI script gives that single unit (not to the group!) an order to move or attack, that unit moves at lower speed group. If I can demonstrate this, I will open a BUG ticket to the wz developers.

VTOLs appeared late in the game, after 1 hour, but it was devastating (I lost )

nice to hear this!

I think that research paths need to be rebuilded (but lets wait for better players). One thing i am sure is to make power researches come faster, especially if DyDo is dominating the battlefield.

mmmm, I like this idea, I could implement it.

AI was controlling all the map but its only tactic was to send waves instead of 1 giant attack.

Actually AI sends a "giant attack" only if some conditons have been reached: troups superiority or derricks superiority (I am not going to explain in details this, otherwise you would have an advantage... ), possibly this was never met in your game.

[guciomir]

If the speed issues are repaired, Dydo will be much powerful.

I am not sure if giant attack conditions are well defined. I had only 5 derricks (enemy was controlling all the rest). And the AI had a great advantage of troops. Giant wave did not come.

One more thing, I'm guessing: sometimes I am being attacked by 1 or 2 enemy tanks. Maybe they just got repaired and reentered the battlefield?

[Zarel]

I have also posted herethe research paths for both General 1 and General 2, please let me know your thoughts.

You're researching a lot of things that don't exist anymore. Like "Cyborg Engineer" and "Machinegunner"... the relevant cyborgs are given from "Engineering" and "Machinegun" respectively.

[DylanDog]

You're researching a lot of things that don't exist anymore. Like "Cyborg Engineer" and "Machinegunner"... the relevant cyborgs are given from "Engineering" and "Machinegun" respectively.

Thanks Zarel, I will remove them (they are not affecting the research anyway as they are "skipped" when DyDo try to research it ).

[Zarel]

Thanks Zarel, I will remove them (they are not affecting the research anyway as they are "skipped" when DyDo try to research it ).

Are you sure? They still exist as research topics, they just don't do anything.

[Berg]

I created a map with only 3 oil dereks each
If you prepare a defencive base dydo research fairly well (leaving ai to run without hinderance)
But if you attack dydo as soon as you can it only builds 1 research station and 1 factory and 1 cyborg
It produced a mass amount of fighting units but they fell behind my tech and my army defeted them easily
I think that it should try to balance research with attack i don't know how it works.
But if you can get the ai to spend equal money on attack research and defence structures it would
make it a lot harder to defeat
Please note I like to make maps that have very low resourses
Still testing
If you would like to see the map i'll send it to you

[DylanDog]

Thanks for the post Berg!

I created a map with only 3 oil dereks each
... if you attack dydo as soon as you can it only builds 1 research station and 1 factory and 1 cyborg
It produced a mass amount of fighting units but they fell behind my tech and my army defeted them easily
I think that it should try to balance research with attack i don't know how it works.

This could happen because of this reasons:

If after 5 minutes DyDo has not reached a minimum number of units, it spends all the power available in producing units and stopping everything else (but the building of structures!!) until that minimum number of units has not been reached (actually = 10).

The reason of this is obvious, if during the game DyDo is attacked and remains with very few units the first thing to do is to build them and not to spend power in research, defend structs or upgrades.

Now the fact of having only 3 derricks can influence this a lot...I need to test on my own.

It produced a mass amount of fighting units

with only one factory and one cyborg factory?
what do you mean with "mass amount of units"? this looks strange, when 10 units are available DyDo should build the missing structures and not units...

If you would like to see the map i'll send it to you

Yes please send it to me! I have sent you a PM with the email.

[Berg]

As I said I dont know how AI's work
The way to look at this situation is I am attacking and AI's units are being destroyed
So it is not reaching its limits (are they 10 total or 10 per factory)
It had a cyborg and a tank factory built.
Maybe mass units is incorrect wording as I only use 6 units approx at a time to attack.
With low resourses I play with the least amount to conserve money.
Using unusual maps is probably not a good test for the AI but thats how i like to play.
also in previous testing i limited structures on this i left it all at default values

[DylanDog]

Thanks Zarel, I will remove them (they are not affecting the research anyway as they are "skipped" when DyDo try to research it ).

Are you sure? They still exist as research topics, they just don't do anything.

yes, I am sure, the research starts always from the second element in the array...but I remove them anyway.

[guciomir]

Hi, I did not have time lately to test the AI

How is your work on the mod going?
Does any decent player help you with templates and research paths?

One idea for the research tree:
maybe the AI should not research every weapon type, but choose randomly 1 or 2 and starts specializing in it? It can be done probably by creating many different research paths or by creating 1 big research paths but with some junctions, where AI decides randomly where to go (something similar to what you done with VTOL stuff)

[DylanDog]

How is your work on the mod going?

Proceeding! proceeding very well I would say. I am currently working on new features :
- Communication (ask for help, tell ally AI to attack an enemy, ask for a report on AI satus)
- Improved AI strength...still ongoing but I am slowly getting there!

Sometimes I put on the DyDo website the last build for test purposes, please put an eye over there every now and then and take the last build, I will add a new build there tomorrow.

Does any decent player help you with templates and research paths?

No, but I am improving them on my own

maybe the AI should not research every weapon type, but choose randomly 1 or 2 and starts specializing in it? It can be done probably by creating many different research paths or by creating 1 big research paths but with some junctions, where AI decides randomly where to go (something similar to what you done with VTOL stuff)

A good Idea. Would you mind to add it here?

[Zarel]

The first question is, do you think your AI, right now, is better than Aivolution?

If so, I invite you to replace it.

[DylanDog]

The first question is, do you think your AI, right now, is better than Aivolution?

If so, I invite you to replace it.

Much appreciated!!

Well maybe I am not the right person to ask for this, WZ players can be more impartial then myself.

What I can say is that looking at the way the AI scripts are done, AIvolution is much better then BP and better then the standard AI for sure. But it has a bug causing he game to crash evry now and then, therefore I am only testing DyDo against BP and the stanbdard AI...and it always wins (regardless of the General).

I think DyDo is also better then AIvolution but I cannot demonstrate it now.
For sure, nowadays, I prefer to play a skirmish game with DyDo.

The fact is that I am still developing it and changing it a lot. On the version I am working on life for human players will be more difficult in 4 and 8 players games and DyDo makes team play (with both other AIs or human players). There is still a lot to do for me. I know I can improve DyDo a lot.

Please spare 2-3 months and DyDo will be complete.
I think it took one year to get BP where it is, DyDo is much more complicated, I am developing it only since May (I think).

My conclusion: DyDo is not mature yet to be included in WZ package.

[Zarel]

Hrm. Do you know any way to fix that Aivolution bug, to make more objective tests?

Oh, screw it. Aiv was optimized for 2.1's [im]balance. I'm sure DyDo's better. Let's just stop putting this off and just kill off Aiv already. I'm tired of all the bug tickets caused by Aiv that no one's ever going to fix.

Some tweaks:

"DyDo do not harvest oilRes which becomes free during the game if they are more than half map far away from his base."

I don't think this should be the case. If you can hold it, why not? Plus AIs have the attention span to micromanage a methodical takeover of oil resources: Send a few tanks over, leave them there while you build up defenses, then have everyone leave. Especially if the oil resource is unguarded. Is there some way to check for that? Remember, building derricks is completely free; if you can get the derrick up and your truck escaped, you come out ahead no matter how soon that derrick gets destroyed.

Out of curiosity, which templates does DyDo use in the endgame?

[DylanDog]

Hrm. Do you know any way to fix that Aivolution bug, to make more objective tests?
Oh, screw it. Aiv was optimized for 2.1's [im]balance. I'm sure DyDo's better. Let's just stop putting this off and just kill off Aiv already. I'm tired of all the bug tickets caused by Aiv that no one's ever going to fix.

I tried to have a look months ago but was not able to understand where the issue is. Possibly nowadays could be easier as I got much more experience un bugs finding. To be honest I also prefer to spend my free time in fixing bugs in DyDo.

I don't think this should be the case. ...if you can get the derrick up and your truck escaped, you come out ahead no matter how soon that derrick gets destroyed.

You are right, I changed this in DyDo 1.2.2 (I will add a download link concerning the 2.2.2 for testing purposes soon, I want to test it on my own a bit more before).

Out of curiosity, which templates does DyDo use in the endgame?

[/quote]

You mean on T3 games?

Cyborgs: All possible templates.

Tanks:

Code: Select all

     //Retribution {R-Vehicle-Body07}
  tmpl0[15]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Retre-Hover-Scourge" //ok
	tmpl0[14]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Retre-Track-Scourge"  //ok
	tmpl0[13]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Retre-Hover-RailGun"  //ok
	tmpl0[12]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Retre-Track-FlashLight"  //ok
	tmpl0[11]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Retre-Track-PulseLsr"  //ok
	tmpl0[10]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Retre-Track-RailGun"  //ok
	
       //Vengeance {R-Vehicle-Body10}
  tmpl0[9]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Hover-Scourge"   //ok
	tmpl0[8]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Track-Scourge"  //ok
	tmpl0[7]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Track-PulseLsr"  //ok
	tmpl0[6]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Hover-PulseLsr"  //ok
	tmpl0[5]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Track-HvyLaser"  //ok
	tmpl0[4]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Track-Gauss"  //ok
	tmpl0[3]	TEMPLATE	"SK-Veng-Hover-Gauss"  //ok

	//Wyvern {R-Vehicle-Body13}
	tmpl0[2]	TEMPLATE	"WyvernGaussTracks"
	tmpl0[1]	TEMPLATE	"WyvernPulseTracks"
	tmpl0[0]	TEMPLATE	"WyvernHvLaserTracks"

No Retaliation and no Dragon.