Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

[Berserk Cyborg]

Cool, will start replicating those victory conditions and the other things shortly. I added two new options for away mission victory data: forced return to LZ (parameter retlz) and forced total annihilation (parameter annihilate). Possible victory conditions below.

Code: Select all

//Not forced to return to LZ, not forced total annihilation
//Not forced to return to LZ, force total annihilation
//force return to LZ, not forced total annihilation
//force return to LZ, force total annihilation

As you may have noticed, only the first one was used in jscam until now. I mean, we could do those others before, but I prefer leaving extra victory conditions to things other than this. Maybe add one that checks if a certain object has been destroyed also?

So from Alpha 3-8 Those missions reflect the ending scenario outlined. Alpha 5 commander now attacks and is no longer defensive along with his group. A bit confused how Alpha 8 was tougher in terms of aggressiveness. Bethrezen, can you explain that more?

[Bethrezen]

A bit confused how Alpha 8 was tougher in terms of aggressiveness. Bethrezen, can you explain that more?

like i already mentioned the computer just seemed more aggressive than on alpha 8 on v1.10 than on master, and i seemed to have a tougher time getting through the level where on master i can knock out the new paradigm base and get to the second LZ within the first 20 minutes which then allows me to use the second 20 minuets you get after opening the second LZ to upgrade my units and then sweep and clear the rest of the map.

on alpha 08 on v1.10 it took me the full 30 minuets to get to the second LZ due to the stiffer opposition, now I'm not sure if it just seemed harder because my units seem to take damage quicker on v1.10 than on master and because my lancers appear to be weaker on v1.10 than on master or if there units are just tougher and stronger on v1.10 than on master not sure exactly what has changed but there is a definite and noticeable difference in balance between v1.10 and master

In any event I'll play the level again and take a few screen shot to see if i can illustrate what I'm seeing with regards to the computers behaviour.

Ok so this is the first change i notice that builder doesn't usually show up like that on master



This is the second difference i notice.



as you can see i have just destroyed the bunker the computer was trying to build and i have come under immediate attack, again this doesn't normally happen on master.

another thing that doesn't happen in master these tanks will chase you up to a point as will all there other units.



in this screen shot i started having a go at there towers and come under immediate attack.



as you can see in this screen shot while I'm trying to get repaired I'm again coming under attack.



Once again as soon as i go after there towers i come under immediate attack.



and once again as i try to pull back for repair there units pursue mine



again as i go after there towers i come under immediate attack.



hopefully that should be enough to give you the general idea of what i mean when i say the computer seems more aggressive on alpha 08 on v1.10 as compared to master, basically when ever i try to move out from the ramp at the bottom of the first section to do anything I come under immediate attack and when i try to fall back for repair there units will chase mine so clearly most of there units are set to pursue with the limit on the pursuit distance being the bottom of the ramp normally they wont follow any further than that, and obviously due to the balance differences this actually makes the level tougher because i can't kill there units as quickly on v1.10 as i can on master.

[edit]
To really get a feel for how this is different from master your best bet would be to just play alpha 08 on v1.10 your self if ya like i can upload the v1.10 save for alpha 08.

[edit 2]
If you are going to have a go at Alpha 08 on v1.10 and you want to activate debug mode so that you can reveal the whole map and watch what is going on here is how.

First off create a new short cut then right click and select properties and add

-imacheatingscallywagger

To the end of line so the short cut looks like this

"C:\Program Files\Pumpkin Studios\Warzone2100\Warzone.exe" -3dfx -800 -imacheatingscallywagger

Then double click on the short cut you crated and start up the game start a new game or load an existing save and press SHIFT ? and you should get a message confirming that debug mode has been activated.

If pressing SHIFT ? doesn't work then quiet out of the game

go to options > key mapping and press the trash bin icon to reset the controls to default.

Then start up a new game or load an existing save and again press SHIFT ? to activate debug mode.

Once debug mode is active press CTRL G to display the whole map press CTRL G again to turn it back off there are other things you can do as well you can find a list here

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13581

In addition to use some of the other cheats like time toggle press T and then type the cheat and then press ENTER.

[alfred007]

I moved on to test beta 5. I took a look, if you loose if the collective catch too many civilians. The good news: It worked. The bad news: I found a new bug. After loosing the game you could continue the same level. Instead of bringing me back to the menu after clicking "continue game" just this button disappeared the rest of the window is still shown as you can see at the picture below. (It's german, because I'm German)

wz2100-20170930_132823-CAM_2C.jpg

When you now hit escape and choose resume game you can continue the losed game. I tested it with a saved game from the end of beta 3 and the same happened. I could continue beta 3 with no more time on the timer. And after total annihilation of the collective I got the message that I won and could move on. I could save the games, reloading failed. I still add the two saved games and the logs.

[Bethrezen]

now that's a weird one, that used to happen on alpha but i though that had already been fixed because that doesn't happen on alpha now, wonder why it would happen on beta but not alpha odd?

[alfred007]

now that's a weird one, that used to happen on alpha but i though that had already been fixed because that doesn't happen on alpha now, wonder why it would happen on beta but not alpha odd?

This bug is again alive at alpha mission. I reloaded an old save from the end of alpha 09 and found the same issue.

Edit: And there was no message or error in the log. The log looks like it was all ok.

[Bethrezen]

now that's a weird one, that used to happen on alpha but i though that had already been fixed because that doesn't happen on alpha now, wonder why it would happen on beta but not alpha odd?

This bug is again alive at alpha mission. I reloaded an old save from the end of alpha 09 and found the same issue.

Edit: And there was no message or error in the log. The log looks like it was all ok.

oh ??? strange I'll have to update to the latest master and verify that one.

[-Philosopher-]

Cool, will start replicating those victory conditions and the other things shortly. I added two new options for away mission victory data: forced return to LZ (parameter retlz) and forced total annihilation (parameter annihilate). Possible victory conditions below.

Code: Select all

//Not forced to return to LZ, not forced total annihilation
//Not forced to return to LZ, force total annihilation
//force return to LZ, not forced total annihilation
//force return to LZ, force total annihilation

As you may have noticed, only the first one was used in jscam until now. I mean, we could do those others before, but I prefer leaving extra victory conditions to things other than this. Maybe add one that checks if a certain object has been destroyed also?

Sorry - I'm not following - what are these? Are they options that can be applied to various stages (and are being used to reflect the 1.10 victory conditions) or all applicable to all stages or... something else?

So from Alpha 3-8 Those missions reflect the ending scenario outlined.

I haven't checked the latest master yet - are these already included in it or still to come? (I'm assuming the latter, but let me know...)

Alpha 5 commander now attacks and is no longer defensive along with his group.

When does he make his attack? In wzcam there's a specific trigger - his home base has to come under attack. Also, the other group - the one with light-bodied mini-pod launchers - is out and about (I believe) as soon as the sensor unit spots player units, although they don't go any further than the valley floor in front of the base (in wzcam).

[Bethrezen]

Ok so updated to the latest master
warzone2100-master-20170929-170017-80502be.exe (29-Sep-2017)

Started a new campaign and deliberately let the time run out, and I can confirm that Alfred is correct once the timer runs here is what you get



If you then hit continue, this is what you get



At which point you can hit escape to close this screen and continue playing and complete the level even though the timer has run out as you can see in these screen shots.



Now what should happen when you fail a mission and you hit continue is you should get this screen



So clearly something isn’t right.

[edit]

As you may have noticed, only the first one was used in jscam until now. I mean, we could do those others before, but I prefer leaving extra victory conditions to things other than this. Maybe add one that checks if a certain object has been destroyed also?

its an interesting idea but i don't believe any of the original missions ever had an objective like that so I'm not sure how or where you could add that

unless you where either going to complete and add some of the unfinished missions that pumpkin removed from the game for what ever reason.

Or you where thinking about adding some new optional secondary objectives which is something that doesn't really exist currently.

although i would assume that if you where going to do either of those things then that would be something that would be left till later since we are still working on sorting out the excising missions.

[-Philosopher-]

A bit confused how Alpha 8 was tougher in terms of aggressiveness. Bethrezen, can you explain that more?

like i already mentioned the computer just seemed more aggressive than on alpha 8 on v1.10 than on master, and i seemed to have a tougher time getting through the level where on master i can knock out the new paradigm base and get to the second LZ within the first 20 minutes which then allows me to use the second 20 minuets you get after opening the second LZ to upgrade my units and then sweep and clear the rest of the map.

on alpha 08 on v1.10 it took me the full 30 minuets to get to the second LZ due to the stiffer opposition, now I'm not sure if it just seemed harder because my units seem to take damage quicker on v1.10 than on master and because my lancers appear to be weaker on v1.10 than on master or if there units are just tougher and stronger on v1.10 than on master not sure exactly what has changed but there is a definite and noticeable difference in balance between v1.10 and master

I have to admit I hadn't really noticed much difference in the way this level plays out between wzcam and jscam (unlike several of the others), hence I haven't delved into it already, but a couple of things you've commented on got me thinking - e.g. those bunkers they're determined to build are also a feature of later wzcam, but come to think of it, I don't remember them trying to do the same thing in jscam... so I'll take another look at this one too.

I suspect changes in lancer & body strength is probably a lot to do with it (they've been fiddled with continuously across the versions), but I'll see if I can spot specific trigger and behaviour differences too. In particular, I'll see if can observe what they do when (1) I do nothing at all and (2) I move around but don't actually kill anything...

(a little later...)

Hmm. There are not a lot of differences, but I think you're right. In both wzcam and jscam NP offensive units do nothing until they (personally) spot my units, and only the units that spot mine move, however...

* Trucks are off and building things immediately in wzcam. In jscam they do nothing. In particular, they build structures in what will be the path of player units. Perhaps combined with the historical uselessness of lancers vs. bunkers it's possible those few structures have a disproportionate effect by soaking up a lot of hits that would otherwise have been piercing vehicle armour?
* Units that spot mine in wzcam pursue, fairly doggedly, albeit up to a line. In jscam, they seem to just be on guard, and break off and return to their positions quickly. Yet another way removal of those features has (adversely) affected the game perhaps?
* I'm not sure about this one, but I think certain units move to guard trucks in wzcam when they move around. This can be an indirect cause of having NP attack you before you even reach the valley floor.
* [Edit - see below too] The structures the NP trucks build are significant, because if you attack them all the NP units move to defend them - including those that otherwise sit in place until they spot you (e.g. the heavy tanks up the rise to the left of the NP base)

The weapon balance is definitely a thing too - e.g. in earlier versions weapons were more specialised so I suspect your lancer-only force does stuff-all to hardened structures etc. (a bit like real life, actually - certain AP techs aren't great vs. concrete) Weapon damage, weapon range, body strength, detection distances, etc. have all been continuously modified across the versions.

In more detail...

Here's jscam: I (1) sat at the LZ doing nothing for a couple of minutes to see if anything would move (it didn't), I (2) destroyed the nearby scav base, (3 & 4) reached the valley floor (still nothing...) and (5) set my units to hold fire and drove past. Expected a pasting, instead a single mortar unit on the hill and (just) one of the mini-pod units took a few pot shots at me, then returned to their initial positions (6):

Notice, in particular, how all five trucks do nothing at all during this time.

Also, I triggered some kind of active area here (about where the back four units of my group are), but don't know what it does (nothing visibly changed, but the area disappeared):


In wzcam, although the trucks are off and building things immediately...


...and a few scavs seem to be prepared to advance and wait...


...otherwise, as with jscam, nothing else moves though...


...until they spot my units, and then, again, only the ones that do the spotting. They pursue, though...

...although there's a line the pursuing units don't seem to cross:


Back to jscam... I just drove past rather than attacked, but this time set to fire at will. Despite their front-most units getting a beating, they don't pursue and go back to where they come from:


They (also) otherwise just sat and waited for me...

...they are producing new units however...

...and eventually sortie out to have a go at my guys:

But they do the same thing in wzcam.

In another wzcam play-through I accidentally sent my units the "wrong" way along the path to the valley floor (if you go around the outside you get spotted by more units). As a result my guys laid a few hits onto the structures the southernmost truck had put up. Due to this or some other reason, it decided it had to head up the valley towards my guys, and number of the offensive NP units outside the base moved to form up with it as it did so:

It's hard to know whether it'd do this in jscam or not because those structures are never built in the first place.

[Edit]
Yup - it's definitely the presence of the structures the trucks built that makes the difference. If you let them get built then attack them, all the NP units come out to defend them (e.g. here, the heavy tanks in the NW are on the move after I destroy one of the newly-built towers):


There's that pursuit halt line again though:

It doesn't apply to the sorties by the manufactured groups however - they press their attacks to destruction (in both versions).

[Bethrezen]

Interesting I'll have to have another go at alpha 8 on v1.10 and this time see what happens if i tell my team to hold fire just drive past see if they still come and attack me or if the attack behaviour is caused by my units shooting at there turrets and there units coming out to defend them.

Ok so it would seem that the enemy builders starting to move and building the turrets is triggered when i drive past and i get the enemy base detected message the trigger point seems to be right about here



next it seems that this attack group is triggered by me attacking the bunker



Now if i go this way round



i don't get the enemy base detected message and the builders and such are not triggered however this group



will activate as i drive past and there is no way to avoid being spotted as they have a sensor turret and they will chase me all the way to the second LZ



so you can see what i mean when i say there units are set to pursue mine the one exception to this is when i retreat back up the ramp at the bottom of the trail here



they don't seem to follow you that far but they will chase you across the valley floor, another thing i have noticed is that they will chase you as long as they can see you as you can see this group will come after me when i move back up the trail a bit and attack them



Not a very good screen shot this one but its difficult to screen shot since i cant zoom out very much on v1.10 but should be enough to illustrate the point



hence my comments on there units being extremely aggressive, and set to pursue your units, clearly there are some differences on this mission between v1.10 and the 2x branch you have been using. What ever the case its clear that this mission plays out quiet differently on v1.10 than it does on master.

* Units that spot mine in wzcam pursue, fairly doggedly, albeit up to a line. In jscam, they seem to just be on guard, and break off and return to their positions quickly. Yet another way removal of those features has (adversely) affected the game perhaps?

possibly.

* I'm not sure about this one, but I think certain units move to guard trucks in wzcam when they move around. This can be an indirect cause of having NP attack you before you even reach the valley floor

with regards to there behaviour it definitely seems that attacking there structures or trucks does provoke a response and there units will come to defend what ever is being attacked. as i noted above which is probably why they seem more aggressive because that generally doesn't happen on master and of course the stiffer opposition combined with the balance differences makes this level tougher on v1.10 on hard than it is on master on insane.

[edit]

To be honest i reckon it would be well worth all of you playing through v1.10 in order to get a feel for how things where compared to how they are now because you are bound to notice things I've missed.

If ya like I can make a portable version of the v1.10 and upload it to the form provided its not to big should only take me a couple of minutes since i already have it installed and patched etc all you'd need to do is unzip it and then create the appropriate short cut so you can start the game in the desired mode either.

software mode - "C:\Program Files\Pumpkin Studios\Warzone2100\Warzone.exe" -software -640
direct 3d - "C:\Program Files\Pumpkin Studios\Warzone2100\Warzone.exe" -d3d -800
3dfx mode - "C:\Program Files\Pumpkin Studios\Warzone2100\Warzone.exe" -3dfx -800

and obviously you'd need to change the directory path to match with where you unzip it you can also you can set a higher resolution like -1024 if you have a bigger screen but i don't so i just use the default 800 x 600.

[-Philosopher-]

hence my comments on there units being extremely aggressive, and set to pursue your units, clearly there are some differences on this mission between v1.10 and the 2x branch you have been using.

Actually, what you're describing is exactly what I saw in 2x too - even if I didn't manage to explain it clearly - with only one possible exception: are you certain the trucks don't start moving immediately? If they didn't, how can the bunker be where it is in your 2nd, 3rd, and 5th pictures? The truck has to travel a bit to get there. The only reason there's more built in my screenshots is that I deliberately waited for them to finish building everything they were going to before moving further (which I don't normally do).

What ever the case its clear that this mission plays out quiet differently on v1.10 than it does on master.

Definitely. I think the trucks building structures and the pursuing vs. guarding behaviour are the two biggest differences.

If ya like I can make a portable version of the v1.10 ...

Please do. I have a version of it installed and had started working my way through the levels, but it's not complete and as I wasn't spotting any differences between it and the otherwise more manageable 2x version I was playing, fixing it didn't seem a priority.

[vexed]

Just wanted to thank everyone here in this thread for doing this, all your input is highly appreciated!
Hopefully, everything will be ironed out before the next release.

Thanks again to Berserk Cyborg for taking up the task of fixing things!

BTW, there were certain missions where in the original version, the units all moved in a group / formation, and those were removed for some reason I can't recall right now. I was wondering if there was a new solution to this issue or not yet?
[Sorry, still am not around much, busy with work, and I am mainly traveling now. That is why I haven't posted as much as I used to. ]

[Berserk Cyborg]

Sorry - I'm not following - what are these? Are they options that can be applied to various stages (and are being used to reflect the 1.10 victory conditions) or all applicable to all stages or... something else?

Yes, used to reflect v1.10 won conditions for the away missions. Can be used for any away mission. So there are four distinct victory conditions like I outlined.

This mod recreates the victory conditions with missions Alpha 3, 4, 5, 8, and Beta 10. Alpha 7 now requires 7 structures instead of four. I tried recreating some of the missing behavior in Alpha 8, ie. trucks building and the base detection for the NP base. Alpha 5 plays very much different with the fixing of the defense group tactics (scavengers run away) and the commander attacks without hesitation when the New Paradigm is assaulted.

Updated-Campaign.wz

Edit:
About the game over screen, has anyone noticed if there are certain situations where it does or does not show the options correctly?

Just wanted to thank everyone here in this thread for doing this, all your input is highly appreciated!
Hopefully, everything will be ironed out before the next release.

Thanks again to Berserk Cyborg for taking up the task of fixing things!

BTW, there were certain missions where in the original version, the units all moved in a group / formation, and those were removed for some reason I can't recall right now. I was wondering if there was a new solution to this issue or not yet?

Already the amount of bug fixing is worthy of a release itself. As for group formation, no, not any solutions. I was thinking that introducing a JS function that could modify and average weight of a group of droids could allow them to move with the same speed. There is NoQ's cluster analysis for regrouping which helps, but different propulsion in a group can stall movement significantly, especially with tracks.

[Berg]

I was thinking that introducing a JS function that could modify and average weight of a group of droids could allow them to move with the same speed.

I do believe in the orignal there was a feature where you could force all units to stay at lowest units speed to stay grouped.
I realy think this feature was important but it was removed from all ther game not just campain maybe the code is just disabled?

[MIH-XTC]

I was thinking that introducing a JS function that could modify and average weight of a group of droids could allow them to move with the same speed.

I do believe in the orignal there was a feature where you could force all units to stay at lowest units speed to stay grouped.
I realy think this feature was important but it was removed from all ther game not just campain maybe the code is just disabled?

Yea I remember that feature did exist but it was considered undesirable because it essentially forced people to group units according to propulsion or else all units would move according to the slowest propulsion. So if an ally passed a track unit or you only made a few tracks and later switched to hovers, all the hovers would only move as fast as the track unless you gave them orders independently which made the unit control confusing.

By default I think units should move as fast as possible and getting units to move together is a matter of human control. Maybe have an on/off toggle for the ability to disable?