[Cam 0] 'Scavenger Wars' Ideas Thread

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Now things are just starting to look ridiculously fanon-like.

[aubergine]

The only country capable of controlling Nexus would be China IMHO. But the current WZ timeline shows them being attacked by, of all countries, Mongolia...

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

And let's not forget that NEXUS was under the direct control of Dr. Reed, who was bankrupted by the U.S. military just before the Collapse happened. I doubt that he'd want to be anyone else's subordinate, whether it's China, Japan, or aliens from outer space.

[Rman Virgil]

Now things are just starting to look ridiculously fanon-like.

Is this what you mean..?: http://fanlore.org/wiki/Fanon

The Pumpkin timeline and backstory are sparse..... lotta gaps. The guideline being followed is to maintain continuity, consistency and not violate what little Pumpkin specified in some outlandish fashion like introducing mutant scavs with telekinetic powers capable of overturning tanks with a single thought. Or some such. Maybe there's a more robust and clear guide. Wanna give it a shot..?
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[Emdek]

The only country capable of controlling Nexus would be China IMHO.

But the Japan is country where such things are created.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I enjoy lively discussion, and this has not disappointed.

Everyone will be pleased to note that I have found a way to make cam 0 and cam 4 work using a different approach -- AND it appears that cam 1~3 can be easily "modernized" if the community so desires. That's something we can discuss after cam 0 and cam 4 are out the door.

It's going to take me two weeks to convert cam 4 over to the new method, and it's on the 3.2 (master) branch. I am halfway finished with applying the needed changes to the data files, which I plan to have finished this evening sometime. Once this work is done we'll be on much more solid footing, and the Multiplayer data will be available in all Campaign modes (as it should have been from the start, imho). Certainly the paradigm that defined the need for Cam and MP datasets to be separate has changed, and that paradigm no longer needs to apply.

The same goes for the discussion about whether or not to use story branching. While I agree that one should remain in the 'rough guidelines' to maintain consistency with defined play/story styles, I will defer to the statement I made about the paradigms that defined Warzone in 1998 no longer really apply to today's Warzone. Things must evolve, or they stagnate; and I believe this is a case in point. My $0.02.

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

The Pumpkin timeline and backstory are sparse..... lotta gaps. The guideline being followed is to maintain continuity, consistency and not violate what little Pumpkin specified in some outlandish fashion like introducing mutant scavs with telekinetic powers capable of overturning tanks with a single thought. Or some such. Maybe there's a more robust and clear guide. Wanna give it a shot..?
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Well, not only do we have the backstory to work with, but we also have the plot within the game itself to work with. Here's the basic synopsis of the plot throughout the game:

Campaign 1:

Mission 1: Team Alpha lands in the Eastern Sector to recover the Synaptic Link technology. They soon discover that the sector is populated with hostile Scavengers.

Mission 2: The Scavengers seem to possess more advanced technology than usual (such as Power Modules, and on mission 4, Research Labs). An unknown Sensor vehicle is spotted (which we later assume belongs to the New Paradigm).

Mission 5: Before the mission starts, Team Beta, who is located in the Eastern Sector, informs us that they've detected the presence of another force in the sector (which we later assume is the Collective), though they haven't yet entered conflict with them. Meanwhile, Team Gamma reports that the Northern Sector is quiet, with no other forces in sight. Soon after the mission starts, the player is given a warning from an unknown source to leave the area, or be destroyed. During the mission, the player (unknowingly) provokes the New Paradigm to initiate war with the Project.

Mission 6: The New Paradigm were apparently arming the Scavengers since Team Alpha's arrival. The New Paradigm launches an assault on Alpha Base. The assault is repelled, and the Project finds a Cyborg Factory during their counterattack.

Mission 7: Unfortunately, the Synaptic Link technology is not present here. The New Paradigm move the artifact elsewhere.

Mission 8: It is discovered that the New Paradigm are retrieving the Synaptic Link technology for some unknown entity known only as NEXUS. It is later known that the NEXUS Intruder Program is a sophisticated computer parasite, and that the New Paradigm are infected with it, and are under NEXUS's control.

Mission 9: Team Alpha recovers the Synaptic Link technology, though the New Paradigm has already begun deploying cyborgs.

Mission 12: Team Alpha launches an assault on the New Paradigm HQ in an effort to put an end to their operations against the Project. (Before this mission started, the New Paradigm was giving orders to rally all of their attack forces under some unknown location, presumably for another massed assault on Alpha Base.) NEXUS swears revenge, and orders the Collective to launch assaults against Team Beta (whom was searching for VTOL technology). The Collective are apparently already in possession of VTOL technology, as is demonstrated during their assault on Team Beta.

Campaign 2:

Mission 2: The transport that was used to airlift troops from Alpha Base in order to fend off the Collective's assault on Beta Base was shot down. (My personal guess is that the Collective saw the transport as being too much of a thorn to their side, so they decided to set up AA defenses to shoot it down, and deny the Project access to the ability to airlift any more reinforcements from Alpha Base.)

Mission 4: It is discovered that NEXUS is using the Collective for its purposes as well. Moreover, it is discovered that NEXUS is searching for NASDA Central. We assume that NEXUS had infected NASDA systems before, and used them to start the Collapse.

Mission 6: After a grueling battle, in which the Collective began fielding long-range artillery (Ripple Rockets and Howitzers), Team Beta recovered the technology needed to produce VTOLs, as well as said long-range artillery. It is also discovered that the Collective have a Nuclear Power Plant, and have been rounding up civilians so that they can use it to provide power to NASDA Central.

Mission 8: Although Team Beta captured NASDA Central from the Collective before they could introduce the NEXUS Intruder Program, NEXUS nevertheless manages to take control of the NASDA systems using another Satellite Uplink, before it was destroyed by Team Beta.

Mission 9: A missile launch is detected. Team Beta prepares to evacuate the Eastern Sector in the event that a nuclear missile is heading towards them.

Mission 10: The missile is confirmed to be headed towards Team Alpha's base in the Western Sector. Team Beta continues preparing for evacuation.

Mission 11: Team Alpha's base is destroyed, though some managed to escape, and are heading towards Team Gamma's position. A second nuclear missile is launched towards Team Beta's base. The Collective, unaware of their fate, try to prevent Team Beta from escaping, on NEXUS's orders, though are ultimately unsuccessful.

Campaign 3:

Mission 1: Team Gamma reports that the missiles were launched from within the Northern Sector. Team Beta sets up a new base there, only to find that NEXUS has a sizable presence within the sector.

Mission 2: The Project managed to destroy the nuclear silos that were used to destroy their bases in the Western and Eastern Sectors, though NEXUS opts to detonate the nukes within the now-sealed silos in order to take out the Project forces that were sent to destroy them. Since the forces cannot be airlifted out for some reason (I'm guessing that NEXUS is blocking the way with AA.), they need to use the nearby mountain ranges to shield them from the nuclear blast. They survive, though contact with them was lost after they report that they're heading back to base.

Mission 3: Team Gamma reports that their base has come under attack, though it is discovered that NEXUS had absorbed Gamma Base, and was trying to lure the Project into a trap.

Mission 4: The Project reports that their systems are experiencing interference. Surviving Team Alpha forces are rescued from NEXUS.

Mission 5: It is discovered that, before Team Alpha's base was nuked, they recovered an artifact from the New Paradigm that could help prevent NEXUS from taking control of the Project's systems. They also discovered that Dr. Reed, who developed the Synaptic Link technology, later went on to work on developing a means of projecting one's consciousness through computer systems. While initially backed by the U.S. military financially, after 3 years with little progress, the military cut off funding from ReedCorp, which infuriated Dr. Reed. He vowed revenge on those that got in his way. It is presumed that Dr. Reed was ultimately successful with his research, and was ultimately responsible for creating NEXUS, who bears an uncanny resemblance towards Dr. Reed. NEXUS then informs the Project that the NEXUS Intruder Program was created to infiltrate systems to such a degree as to be almost undetectable, and then proceeds to start absorbing the Project into itself, but is ultimately unsuccessful, thanks in part to the artifact that Team Alpha recovered.

Mission 6: Unfortunately, even with the artifact researched, the NEXUS Intruder Program is still present within Project systems. Even worse, NEXUS is powering up NASDA's Laser Satellite array to wipe the Project off the face of the Earth. The survivors of the task force that was sent to destroy the nuclear silos in Gamma Mission 2 have reunited with remnants of Team Gamma that escaped NEXUS's absorption, as well as the rest of the Project.

Mission 7: The LasSats are now online, but are in unstable orbit. The Project is forced to evacuate their main base and head for a base to the South that contains anti-satellite missile silos.

Mission 8: The Project have captured the missile silos, but their systems are almost fully absorbed by NEXUS. NEXUS offers the Project a chance to leave unharmed (which I'd personally doubt he'd honor anyways), but the Project forces refuse, in which NEXUS begins launching attacks on the missile silos. Before the Project could crack the codes and use the missiles to destroy the LasSats, they needed to purge their systems of the NEXUS Intruder Program. They are ultimately successful in destroying the LasSats.

Mission 9: Before NEXUS can try to absorb the Project again, the Project launches an assault on NEXUS's main base. They are successful, though little do they realize that NEXUS still lives...

[Rman Virgil]

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That is a very good and useful synopsis Shadow Wolf TJC. The synopsis in the Official WZ 2100 Prima Game Guide isn't any better.

There are important details in evidence to keep in mind for sure. There are also holes big enough to drive a caravan of semi-trucks through, 4 abreast.

But sticking to the goal here, the question now arises -

In what has been put forth so far for "Scavenger Wars", where can we point to potential violations of the original campaign's plot specifics as expressed in the synopsis...?

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[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Updated synopsis a bit, adding in a couple things.

There are important details in evidence to keep in mind for sure. There are also holes big enough to drive a caravan of semi-trucks through, 4 abreast.

But sticking to the goal here, the question now arises -

In what has been put forth so far for "Scavenger Wars", where can we point to potential violations of the original campaign's plot specifics as expressed in the synopsis...?

Well, when Campaign 1 1st started, Team Alpha only had a handful of technologies to start with:

Machinegun
Truck
Viper Body
Wheeled Propulsion
Super Transport
HQ
Research Lab
Factory
Power Generator
Oil Derrick
Demolish Structure

As we all know, Scavengers typically have the following technologies available:

Machinegun
Twin Machinegun
Heavy Machinegun
Light Cannon
Flamer
Mini-Rocket Pods
Lancer
Mortar
Scavenger Walls
Scavenger Towers
Scavenger Bunkers
Various technicals and other vehicles that are converted into fighting vehicles.

Of course, the more advanced weapons could've been due to the New Paradigm arming the Scavengers in response to the Project's arrival.

[Rman Virgil]

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The core narrative dilemma / opportunity presents itself in bold relief.

Can there be a credible & compelling explaination for WHY the scav weap / units from USM incorporated into, and central to, CAM 0 are completely absent from CAM 1..?

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[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Who said that we had to play as the Project for every single campaign mod? There's a lot of potential to flesh out the world of Warzone 2100, especially when seeing it from other points-of-view. Depending on the setting, the Project could be involved as either a supporting faction, or as a background faction.

[Iluvalar]

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The core narrative dilemma / opportunity presents itself in bold relief.

Can there be a credible & compelling explaination for WHY the scav weap / units from USM incorporated into, and central to, CAM 0 are completely absent from CAM 1..?

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Because we need to remake the infrastructure and the equipment to produce the weapons is not there so we need to "reinvent" it. And on top of that, the "armor tearing (AT) mk0" damage upgrade we just ended the Cam 0 with is the prerequisite for a new and more efficient mg type called "machine gun mk1".

The problem is the progression rate of the tech tree, as i said in another post, we'll definitively need to remake it. At least for MP. because as far as I can tell, the universe is created 2 minutes before T1 if we follow the actual scheme.

edit: Before that point, the research lab give you money to have upgrade in the past that regenerate less than is was regenerating the enemies after... or something like that.

[Rman Virgil]

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Time to put theory and generalizations off to the side.

Let us take a single concrete example to illustrate the fundamental narrative dilemma of this entire effort.

It yet remains to be seen if this dilemma will present a great opportunity to create a new, fresh and exciting campaign experience or will instead turn out to be an insurmountable obstacle.

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To wit...

There are Scav Choppers in CAM 0. There are none in CAM 1.

What is the story to account for that..?

What are the missions played that take the player to that outcome in a way that is believable and satisfying.. ? Not just for CAM 0 but moving onward into CAMs 1-3.

Only by answering those questions will using USM assets be possible, I think.

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Or, you may think the underlieing premise of these questions is flawed & should be reformulated, turned on it's head if you will.

If that is your course, then supply some concrete narrative example to demonstrate that alternate path .

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[Emdek]

There are Scav Choppers in CAM 0. There are none in CAM 1.

What is the story to account for that..?

For example those could be ones that somehow survived somewhere and / or were built / fixed using spare parts found in some warehouse(s). When supply of spare parts will end (sometime between campaigns - adding few years gap always helps with such issues ) then there will be no new machines, as technology needed to create new parts was lost during Collapse.
If this would need to be more realistic then there could be some limit on how many units could be constructed or player (including enemies) should start with some amount and for example need to find supplies to get new ones (like current artifacts) or maybe even such thing would be required to repair vehicles.

I don't know how looks current plans for power sources, but personally I would skip use of oil (or use only drums, no derricks - maybe except existing ones) and rely only on artifact like supply crates (maybe more forms, than only generic "supplies"?). Also I would try to avoid as much as possible manufacturing things (at least in the beginning) and try to find a better way to visualize construction progress for Scavengers (for sure no "beaming" - looks too advanced...).

Again about supplies, oil / power as only one material always is very simple and fits especially well into MP mode, but for campaign, especially for this prequel looks too simple probably. Smallest change would be to use current power bar as generic supplies amount indicator, though maybe something more advanced could be good too? Like additional bar for food supplies and separating raw materials from power amount (or skip the latter)?

[Rman Virgil]

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I see no other way.

All the new Scav stuff introduced in CAM 0 has to be in finite supply and by the end of the campaign entirely destroyed leaving only the scav stuff we see in CAM 1 surviving. (The new stuff can be re-introduced in CAM 4 through any number of credible narrative devices.)

Now it's up to story craft & mission design to make the above resolution of the dilemma plausible, compelling and fun.

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