[DEVELOPMENT] Campaign 4 Development Thread

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I'm going to spend today getting final revisions done for the overviews, and getting maps finished up. I got off track with other things, so I need to get back to it.

I should have that work done either today or tomorrow. Mission 6 is going to be a filler mission, I've got something in mind for that one finally. Mission 9's map will be something I just slap together since we won't be there long (and you'll understand why when you read the story there). Mission 13 is coming along VERY nicely, and will be in two parts, and is the stuff of legend -- it'll be such a unique mission that we'll wonder why it hadn't been thought of before.

[milo christiansen]

Neither does using actual NUMBERS in the command

Code: Select all

orderGroupLoc(ReconGroup, DORDER_SCOUT, 70, 114));

. See the tile coords?

Tile coords... That function needs world coords so use WorldCoords(int TileCoords) (I think... its a udf defined at the bottom of each slo file) literals should not cause any problems, but for things like coords please add an entry in the vlo, It makes it easier to fix if the map ever needs changes.

playSound results in a 'syntax error' and/or 'expected something-or-other' -- and yes, I've got an /audio folder in the copy of the mod *I* have with the proper filenames and stuff. /music works fine. /audio? nope. Any idea? Do I need to declare it as a variable in the .vlo? Which seems like extra fluff to me.. should just be able to plug in xnumber and ynumber and have it work. Using Notepad++, if it makes a difference, showing line numbers and all that.

Ask a dev to be sure, but I think the allowable audio files are hardcoded in the exe you need to over write an existing file. Somewhere on the forum I saw a list of unused audio files and their file names. Also I think that the docs for playsound specify a sound variable, I'm not sure if you can use a literal there or not.

Declaring it in the vlo is a good idea in any case. If you don't I'll have to later because its easier to maintain. The vlo should have all map specific data and ANY data that is defined from the start, eg. Audio files, droid/building/feature IDs, templates, and other such things. Makes them much easier to change

[cybersphinx]

If you find limitations in the current engine, could you make an extra thread listing those, maybe categorized like "must-have", "should be done", "nice to have"? (Be conservative with those, especially things that have to be done differently between master and 2.3 might only be done for master.)

And do you intend to do machinima using the 2.3 engine? Then maybe I should get to work on my "don't cut several pixels off the tile borders" plan again... (You can notice that clearly when looking at roads, the center lines should all be equal distance.)

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

If you find limitations in the current engine, could you make an extra thread listing those, maybe categorized like "must-have", "should be done", "nice to have"? (Be conservative with those, especially things that have to be done differently between master and 2.3 might only be done for master.)

And do you intend to do machinima using the 2.3 engine? Then maybe I should get to work on my "don't cut several pixels off the tile borders" plan again... (You can notice that clearly when looking at roads, the center lines should all be equal distance.)

I'm almost of the mind that we're going to have to use 3.0 for our base. So many good changes in there compared to the 2.3.x branch, and some are almost necessary for Cam 4 to really work. I don't want to be the cause of 2.3.x getting a lot of major features that are instead best served for Master where the action is taking place. I'm not completely happy with how maps render in 3.0 (since it's hard to judge where your cliffs are when building, and it interprets the terrain a little *too* much imho).
I'll make the new thread (in Ideas and Suggestions?) with what I'm after.

It hasn't been decided what we're doing for FMV's yet. Jorzi showed us Blender stuff, Rman showed us some Machinima. Both are good choices for differing reasons. My take? An internal one (like in Star Trek Armada) that can be scripted using the new Scripting stuff; but it would be a lot of work to implement and I don't think it's appropriate for 2.3.x. (That series of games didn't even NEED videos, it did them itself on the fly via script using the game's own engine!). I'll refer you folks to this YouTube vid if you're wondering what I'm talking about.

So, all told, between all the things I would love to see in the game (and things I think we actually NEED), 3.x Warzone looks like what we will need for our base. I prefer Community input on this matter -- and it needs to be decided soon. Milo had to re-base campaign 4 against 2.3.x at my request, and I don't think he was very happy about it.

Neither does using actual NUMBERS in the command

Code: Select all

orderGroupLoc(ReconGroup, DORDER_SCOUT, 70, 114));

. See the tile coords?

Tile coords... That function needs world coords so use WorldCoords(int TileCoords) (I think... its a udf defined at the bottom of each slo file) literals should not cause any problems, but for things like coords please add an entry in the vlo, It makes it easier to fix if the map ever needs changes.

playSound results in a 'syntax error' and/or 'expected something-or-other' -- and yes, I've got an /audio folder in the copy of the mod *I* have with the proper filenames and stuff. /music works fine. /audio? nope. Any idea? Do I need to declare it as a variable in the .vlo? Which seems like extra fluff to me.. should just be able to plug in xnumber and ynumber and have it work. Using Notepad++, if it makes a difference, showing line numbers and all that.

Ask a dev to be sure, but I think the allowable audio files are hardcoded in the exe you need to over write an existing file. Somewhere on the forum I saw a list of unused audio files and their file names. Also I think that the docs for playsound specify a sound variable, I'm not sure if you can use a literal there or not.

Declaring it in the vlo is a good idea in any case. If you don't I'll have to later because its easier to maintain. The vlo should have all map specific data and ANY data that is defined from the start, eg. Audio files, droid/building/feature IDs, templates, and other such things. Makes them much easier to change

It was just something I was trying. I want to learn the scripting so I can help out and do some stuff on my own, but it's not imperative. I had some ideas that I wanted to explore, mainly detail stuff to enrich the mission as things progressed and so you wouldn't have to do it yourself.

[cybersphinx]

I'm almost of the mind that we're going to have to use 3.0 for our base. So many good changes in there compared to the 2.3.x branch, and some are almost necessary for Cam 4 to really work. I don't want to be the cause of 2.3.x getting a lot of major features that are instead best served for Master where the action is taking place. I'm not completely happy with how maps render in 3.0 (since it's hard to judge where your cliffs are when building, and it interprets the terrain a little *too* much imho).
I'll make the new thread (in Ideas and Suggestions?) with what I'm after.

Hm, the question is how soon you want to release something, or how much you want to couple your development to a branch without a concrete plan for release. As far as master development is concerned, I think it would be very good to have some input of modders regarding changes. A complete campaign would be perfect for this, on the other hand it might mean you'll have to redo lots of things until a final master-based release.

Regarding 2.3, if the changes apply to both that and master, or are easily backportable from master, that'd also be an option (if not for 2.3, then an experimental 2.4 branch that might get some of the non-renderer 3.0beta changes as well). But to judge that, that list I mentioned would be good.

An internal one (like in Star Trek Armada) that can be scripted using the new Scripting stuff; but it would be a lot of work to implement and I don't think it's appropriate for 2.3.x. (That series of games didn't even NEED videos, it did them itself on the fly via script using the game's own engine!).

Right, in-game scripting the cutscenes is another option (and was brought up when the videos were not available, though nobody picked it up).

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Hm, the question is how soon you want to release something, or how much you want to couple your development to a branch without a concrete plan for release. As far as master development is concerned, I think it would be very good to have some input of modders regarding changes. A complete campaign would be perfect for this, on the other hand it might mean you'll have to redo lots of things until a final master-based release.

There's no real timeframe for release. It's done when it's done. Those of us that have been working on it have done it at our own pace, and it's really been the speed we're getting things done in rather than any kind of plan. We just pick something and work on it. It's a labour of love, after all.

Regarding 2.3, if the changes apply to both that and master, or are easily backportable from master, that'd also be an option (if not for 2.3, then an experimental 2.4 branch that might get some of the non-renderer 3.0beta changes as well).

Whatever makes the lives of the dev team easier. I think Milo prefers 3.0 branch stuff, but a 2.4 experimental branch with everything BUT the new renderer would probably be fine. Up to you folks, really. I assume that would include the new QT stuff? Would be interesting to try the old renderer with it, to nail down any bottlenecks. I notice that in the current Master that it lags terribly a lot of the time.

(And please, oh please, keep the old power system. The new way seems much slower to get things done with.)

Right, in-game scripting the cutscenes is another option (and was brought up when the videos were not available, though nobody picked it up).

Nice! I'd love to see it implemented. I made the thread you asked me to, in Ideas and Suggestions, with a crude Command list for it. Probably much more to figure out regarding that, but I tried to give a direction.

[cybersphinx]

Whatever makes the lives of the dev team easier. I think Milo prefers 3.0 branch stuff, but a 2.4 experimental branch with everything BUT the new renderer would probably be fine. Up to you folks, really. I assume that would include the new QT stuff? Would be interesting to try the old renderer with it, to nail down any bottlenecks. I notice that in the current Master that it lags terribly a lot of the time.

What I call 2.4 would be 2.3 with some things that are easy to backport, and that excludes most of master. That's where the "things in master that are not in 2.3 but would be useful for a campaign" list comes in, to see if that is feasible.

A "master with the 2.3 renderer" idea was also mentioned, to be able to have a master-based release without rewriting/fixing the current renderer, but that's a whole other beast (and I don't know if anyone seriously considers this, or if it was just a random thought).

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Ahh, ok. I misunderstood. Happens a lot with me.

I'll have to really look to see. My attempts with running the current campaign mod I have (a bit old -- Milo's working on an almost finished mission 1 version) don't go well. Runtime errors, usually.

I'll try another map and have a look that way.

[Rman Virgil]

The wzgm fork had integrated video dumping, not sure if that could be adapted for a current version. Camera control sucks, a UFO mode (completely free movement) would be nice.

Oh wow. integrated video dumping.....that is cool. The wzgm fork used the new terrain renderer, too ?

UFO mode would be sweet .... & gyroscopic controls for the Pilot Mode camera would be nice too - just kidding that last.

And do you intend to do machinima using the 2.3 engine? Then maybe I should get to work on my "don't cut several pixels off the tile borders" plan again... (You can notice that clearly when looking at roads, the center lines should all be equal distance.)

If done as machinima, the new terrain renderer would be best for the cut-scenes (not v.2.3).

- RV

Sidebar Edit:

I saw the discussions that took place earlier today about facilitating the making of WZ Machinima through the development team's efforts so as to make possible high quality cut-scenes for Campaign 4 (& future campaigns) and that is one mighty benefit going forward.

If you look up the link to Machinima.com mentioned earlier, you will be able to infer yet another possible benefit - the making of WZ Machinima Mini-Movies to submit for distro through the Machinima.com world; a world which is already vast (and ever growing) as yet another medium to spread the word about this game and this project's efforts via that untapped galaxy of gamers.

This last also implies a third benefit - opening up yet another WZ expressive art form for fans of the game to actively explore creatively.

.

[Jorzi]

@ Jorzi: Nice! You're definitely a pro. Thanks for creating that! Are you volunteering your services to the cause?

I think I have enough time to help out with this besides working on AR, although I would mainly be doing blender related stuff (some things like interior scenes could be made in blender and inserted into the machinima cutscenes, for example).
I can do some mechanical animation etc but don't ask for character animation, that is the most advanced skill in computer graphics...

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

@Jorzi: You read my mind. I was thinking about that last night. And I furthermore approve the entire Art Revolution Team to hop on board, if desired, since you guys friggin rock. Many thanks and eternal gratitude to you for stepping up. I'll make sure you are in the loop.

@ Rman: Take a look at the proposed Sequence Scripting Commands here. Not sure if it is possible for the engine to output stuff to .ogg, but it would sure be nice. I'll add the command to the list and we'll see if it pans out. Using a combination of things for FVMV's seems to be the best way to go. Between everything, I believe this matter is settled. I've made final changes to the Overviews and dialogue for pacing and appropriateness. I'll have those available today after I button some things up. And yes, this IS the final change to dialogue.

All in all, the sense I'm getting is that we should target the 3.0 series. Many, many benefits come along many different aspects that have been improved in the game and its' underlying code would really be best to have it's official debut with a new campaign.

Any problems with this change of plans, anyone? Milo? Flail?

So here's where we're at:

- Scripting is covered.
- Audio is covered.
- GFX is covered.
- FMV's are planned.
- Content is covered.
- Tools are covered, or in progress.
- Administration is covered.
- Blessings secured.

Folks, we are now an official "unofficial" Team.

[milo christiansen]

Scripting is going to take a LONG time to finish because I have other projects I need to work on from time to time

For example yesterday I spent my afternoon working on oblivion and the day before on fallout 3. Hopefully I'll get inspired and finish mission 2 today

As for moving (back ) to master/3.0 I'll have to port the scripts to JavaScript later anyway so porting a few data files will be relatively trivial. The only real deciding point is things like whether to use pie 3.0 and other things that don't really touch scripting.

As for scripted FMVs: Warzone is NOT designed for that kind of thing so anything non-trivial would end up looking bad and/or not working right all the time.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

The devs are gonna try to get it put in for 3.0. I'll direct you to this thread created yesterday for more info. It's brand-new, but an older idea which seems to have finally found a need.

Go ahead and port the stuff to 3.0's base. And take your time -- I too mod the hell out of Oblivion (not so much lately). We'll have to compare notes.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Ok folks. New week, latest updates for overviews and game files.

Changelog (now at v0.6):
-------------

- These are the absolute, money in the bank, FINAL overviews for all missions. I know that will make Rman happy. Dialogue has changed yet again for all missions to make it all fit and be consistent, quite significantly in some places. All that's left is FMV sequence dialogue for beginning and end of campaign. I worked hard on these yesterday and today, and my brain hurts from it. Take note of Mission 13 and Mission 6 -- making their debut in this release.

- Three tracks of music, with the fourth under way. Also contains the prototype M1 dialogue for Gibbs and the "Foley Board" project files. Had other things to do today, sorry more wasn't done. Custom SFX also included, but incomplete. Prototype SFX for the new Super Transport is there too. Included sound files are either GPL or CC licenced from FreeSound.org if I didn't make them myself or were not included with Warzone 2100. If it's something I made myself (like the music), it's CC licensed and open to all.

- Maps done except Mission 13a and 13b. Mission 9's map appears incomplete because scripting will take care of whatever belongs on it. It has a different approach to what constitutes a mission (read the overview). Mission 6 is brand-new and should be quite enjoyable. Did that map yesterday and today in-between reworking the overviews, and I like it because it is unique. Maps *might* need to be recompiled, I've added features to the main map (for example) and made other changes compared to the release on 5/5/11. Also contains another map with an idea I had. Tilesets are "Extended" drop-in versions with added tiles to make them more complete. You'll need to replace the ones in flaME AND in the mod with these to see them in action. Applies to Arizona and Urban. Also included is a mashup Urban set that contains many of from my 'GothTiles' set. Something that I had an idea for to use on 13b ...

Anyway, uploading to Dropbox. Link will be provided when complete. As usual, report any problems here.

PM's sent to those who need it.

[Rman Virgil]

Ok folks. New week, latest updates for overviews and game files.

Changelog (now at v0.6):
-------------

- These are the absolute, money in the bank, FINAL overviews for all missions. I know that will make Rman happy. Dialogue has changed yet again for all missions to make it all fit and be consistent, quite significantly in some places. ......

You bet.

Anyway.... quick question which may sound off-the-wall at first blush, but I have given serious thought to a number of dynamics before asking. I'll just simply ask without stating any reasons or rational for contemplating such a course.

Have you ever thought about an installment release ?

- Rman
.