ManGodAi4x / AquaCoop, Comic, Cinematic…Terminal Dark.

[Rman Virgil]

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YAY! thanks Rman, Wish I had time right now to play it (mumbles about summer "vacation" business)

You bet, macuser. Whenever you get the time for an amusing WZ diversion I think you will find this work, even in its present unfinished state, very interesting and fun. (Your comment reminds me of my central goal these days which is to live 6 months out of the year as a "working" vacation wherein the work is purely of my choosing, yields cash flow, & I can do it anywhere on the planet. 2011 will be my maiden voyage living as such. Life is short. Gotta go for the gusto, don't ya know.)

- RV

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[Rman Virgil]

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Turning to a fresh thread page leads me to quote anew for those who only read the most current page postings...

(slightly edited for clarity)

And now the time of Screen Caps is behind us - welcome to my world of Aqua Co-op SE.

This page (Page 12) speaks to all the particulars of opening wide the continued balance testing.

Please look at the graphics & posts on page 12 of this thread - they summarize the design goals and game play set-up that have remained consistent through 177 posts first commenced back in February. .... I have merely expanded and refined over these months the original vision.

...... With this posting of 4c-AquaCmpBeta6c I am seeking further input from the community at large in the following very specific areas:

1.) Oil Resource Amount & Distribution as well as

2.) Player 7 Scav Force Strength & Distribution

This 2-pronged focus is so that I may further refine the overall BALANCE in these areas within my stated design parameters. Any such constructive input will be much appreciated so that I may make further modifications toward the end of putting this up in a FINAL release form in the Showcase BB & Addons Repository.

Of course you may play 4c-AquaCmpBeta6c outside of my stated parameters in a multitude of different ways (interesting in their own right too) and I do encourage you to explore as such but any critiques of those other ways are not relevant to what I'm looking for here. In a previous post I directly address this point and it's positive consequences outside the scope of what I am doing at present here; that is, looking down the road when this is finished and licensed and you folks can work on your own variations with my total blessings in Flail13's marvelous FlaME map editor.

As stated earlier :

.......

I have, frankly, done quite a few experimental things that may fly with some and not with others.

From the get go I designed it within a specific set of parameters that reflected a mind-set that went against the conventional wisdom.... a way that some will embrace and have a fun playing and others will not like at all. (How could I not know only too well all the status-quo particulars having actively engaged the game and community since early 1999.)

The ones that will not like it - I knew all the reasons why months ago but still went ahead with my vision & implementations.

But here's the deeper beauty of it.

As it is folks can play it in a number of DIFFERENT ways than how I designed it and how I suggest to set-it-up in the above graphics. I'll leave it to folks to discover for themselves all those different ways.

Also consider this reality - once I release it with a license in the Showcase BB, those who do not care for some of my fundamental game play design choices will be free to re-design the game play elements to suit their particular tastes... those very tastes I frankly was steering away from. And that's totally cool with me.

I do believe there will be some peeps who will be inspired to redesign the game play elements other than how I did it and I hope they do !! (This will be imminently feasible because my basic, underlying, map making craft is compellingly top-notch and rich in possibilities left totally unexplored by me.)

There is one exception to this proviso - you have a choice to go with the default Player 7 Scav A.I. by Per OR you can use Dylan Dog's different & interesting Dydo Player 7 Scav A.I. - both work well & provide variant experiences within my GP parameters.

Well then, without further ado.... 4c-AquaCmpBeta6c

This Forum has a 100kbs limit on attachments so I have to use another host for the file because it's 126 kbs ... sorry for the additional hitch, but here is the link at Filedropper.... it's in a .zip archive so just take the 4c-AquaCmpBeta6c.wz out of the .zip archive and then put it in your Map Folder.

http://www.filedropper.com/4c-aquacmpbeta6c

- RV

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[Rman Virgil]

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Very much related to the current phase of this project (at least in my brain) is the latest volume (Pub. June 10, 2010) written by one of the truly seminal thinkers of the Internet Revolution, Clay Shirky.

I just finished it & it's called "Cognitive Surplus: Creativity & Generosity in a Connected Age".

IMHO, it also addresses the soft underbelly of the predominant activity in this neck of the woods as specifically exemplified by the "Ideas and Suggestions" BB.

Another very recently published work I just completed & also find of relevance (with much evidence of hereabouts) is -

"The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains" by Nicholas Carr (Pub. June 7, 2010)

Both are highly recommended on their own merits regardless of any particular local correspondences I have just suggested.


- Systemic gadfly, RV

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[NEXUS]

I wil go and test this masterpiece of a map later on today...

[Rman Virgil]

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I wil go and test this masterpiece of a map later on today...

Thank you NEXUS.

This is a fully 5D map and a lot harder to beta test for constructive feedback than to simply play for fun. And that's the great divide - one is serious work, the other entertainment. Most either don't know the difference or are constitutionally incapable of the tasking.

As for "masterpiece"... it is surely my own masterpiece of map-making crafting to date. Whether others will assess it as such is really not my concern nor has it all factored in my creative efforts. I had a vision and a set of self-defined standards of excellence that I sought to implement and that is all. What others think, quite honestly, comes AFTER the fact of creation, after the work is brought to a certain cohesive phase.

It is at this stage that constructive peer feedback is much appreciated so as to further enhance the experience for those of like minded tastes - whether those represent a majority or minority in sheer numbers is not really relevant even if such a metric could actually be accurately ascertained - which in a community where it is likely that 90% are lurkers and won't even cast an anonymous vote, that in itself is a highly dubious proposition.

Actually in such situations as this with a tiny fraction of the populace vocally active, this tiny minority's voice takes on a stature and substance out of all proportion to it's numbers and can potentially become an insular and stultifying force, especially in the absence of courageous, level-headed, precient, fair-minded, leadership.

- RV

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[Black Project]

I founded a issue on your map.

AI trucks on Player 1 & 3 gets stuck close outside of the base, it's mainly because there are two gateways on the map (which are close to their bases (Player 1 & 3) and they try to build defenses on the gateways, but these gateways are inaccessible, causing them to get stuck.

Here some screenshots (Click them to enlarge)

wz2100-20100629_122345-Sk-AquaCmpBeta6c-T3.jpg

wz2100-20100629_122356-Sk-AquaCmpBeta6c-T3.jpg

BP

[Rman Virgil]

I founded a issue on your map.

AI trucks on Player 1 & 3 gets stuck close outside of the base, it's mainly because there are two gateways on the map (which are close to their bases (Player 1 & 3) and they try to build defenses on the gateways, but these gateways are inaccessible, causing them to get stuck.

Here some screenshots (Click them to enlarge)

wz2100-20100629_122345-Sk-AquaCmpBeta6c-T3.jpg

wz2100-20100629_122356-Sk-AquaCmpBeta6c-T3.jpg

BP

Thank you BP. Taking time from your own HUGE project is much appreciated.

Let me clarify what the situation is from the design side...

Did you turn ON Player 7 Scavs ?

Because if you did those Ski A.I. Trucks would NEVER survive to get stuck. I'm pretty sure you were running in SKI with Scavs turned-off. To play the map as I designed it in this version you have to turn-on Scavs. With Scavs turned-off the Scav Defenses on those ridges will not be placed and thus the Ski A.I. Trucks will gravitate to them as they should and won't be destroyed - instead getting stuck.

Those GWs are there for human Players because this version of the map is designed for Players 0-3 to be purely controlled by humans and NOT the Ski A.i.

And the reason I put those GWs there is because they are needed for human players to build defenses on isolated terrain - in this case AFTER the Human Player has destroyed the Player 7 Scav Defenses on the ridge.

Those GWs are not on the Elite Version of Aqua which is specially designed for Skirmish Play against the A.I....

However, I may go ahead and remove them for this all human player version only because most human players may find it too hard or tricky to build defenses on those ridges. But you can with a little practice, believe me, & I find it fun to accomplish.

Regards, RV

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[Black Project]

The Scavengers were turned on, just note on the minimap the cyan dots. (DyDo Scav 1.2.1 was included on the mod too)

It's very challeging, even to plan a defense perimeter, cause if a player lets a important flank undefended, another player will discover it and screw his base badly with a surprise attack.

The map is huge and very tricky, i love 250x250 maps, just like 8c-Bose (created by Dylan Hsu), but it's even more challenging.

I post more of my experience on this map later, so i can explain it better, cause i have no time to test it right, gotta go back to work.

[Rman Virgil]

The Scavengers were turned on, just note on the minimap the cyan dots. (DyDo Scav 1.2.1 was included on the mod too)

It's very challeging, even to plan a defense perimeter, cause if a player lets a important flank undefended, another player will discover it and screw his base badly with a surprise attack.

The map is huge and very tricky, i love 250x250 maps, just like 8c-Bose (created by Dylan Hsu), but it's even more challenging.

I post more of my experience on this map later, so i can explain it better, cause i have no time to test it right, gotta go back to work.

Thanks BP. I'll go double check that Player 7 Scav defenses on those ridges are functioning properly. I too am using Dydo Scav A.I. but I just put those .slo & .vlo in the folder replacing Per's stock Scav .slo & .vlo.... there may be some issue running the full Dydo A.I.... I'm not sure because I'm not doing that...

I'll post my findings l8r. Me too RL work.

- RV

EDIT: Just quickly double-checked. Scav Player 7 Defenses on those ridges are indeed working as they should.

From what you have shared... the only difference between our set-ups is that you are running the full Dydo and I am running stock Ski A.I. with just Dydo Scav A.I....

I'll check out your set-up for curiosity sake and also for learning. This version of Aqua is intended for 4 Human Players & ONLY Player 7 Scav A.I. - either Per's or Dylan Dogs.

The Elite version which is designed for Skirmish A.I. Players will probably be using the Skirmish A.I. I'm working on that is designed specifically for & optimized to handle Islands.

Of course going forward newer versions of DyDo may be able to handle islands or, if I recall correctly, I think Per mentioned recently some immanent code-level changes that would enable ALL Ski A.I. able to handle Islands. If either of these 2 come to pass in the near future I will abandon work on the Skirmish A.I. intended for the Elite version of Aqua because it will become redundant and that time better allocated to the A.I Scripts for the Mini Campaign version of Aqua half of which I need to still write.

Ok .... I have to get ready to go to work now...

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[NEXUS]

This map is a pure joy to play on, I was reminded of when I first played this game back in 1999 on my PSX...Great job A+

[Rman Virgil]

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This map is a pure joy to play on, I was reminded of when I first played this game back in 1999 on my PSX...Great job A+

I'm so happy to hear you had that "feeling".

It was something I was after from the get go.

It was also one of the hardest things for me to articulate the nature of to myself.

What exactly was that "feeling" & HOW is it evoked in practical terms ?....

Understanding the exact nature of this "feeling" better, I hoped, would enable me to do the work with more than just my own wordless "gut" instincts. (Though I would have gone with those gut instincts alone if there were no other resources to be had.)

My first clue to understanding was an article in Gamasutra:

The Psychology Behind Games

Then I was lead to: Player Satisfaction Modeling (PSM) and this set..

~ The Game Anthropologist: Games' Influencing of Players

~ Flow In Games

~ Fun is Fine: Toward a Philosophy of Game Design

But what helped me the most in "demystifying" what the "feeling" was exactly and how to achieve it in practical terms where the following:

1.) Book: Game Feel: A Game Designer's Guide to Virtual Sensation by Steve Swink and his associated web site - Game Feel

2.) Book: Epigenetics by C. David Allis, Thomas Jenuwein, Danny Reinberg & Marie-Laure Caparros.

And finally what brought it all together and made crystal clear what I had to do from the ground up to have a chance of creating the conditions that would evoke this basic "feeling" (which I now think of as the sense of continuously renewed wonder and fresh adventures at every turn) was when I read:

3.) Book: The Art Instinct: Beauty, Pleasure, and Human Evolution by Denis Dutton.

I like new eye candy as much as I like cotton candy but I was after something more enduring than just novelty.

This has been a journey of discovery in many ways for me. And continues to be.

- RV

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[Rman Virgil]

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Another very important consideration for me in designing Aqua Co-op SMPE was the fact that there is no such thing as multi-tasking - it's a myth and in RL, a dangerous one at that.

What is the reality is called Cognitive Switch-tasking and it factors into every component of game design; most especially in UIs and supportive or system a.i. as in Special Abilities, for example.

More corroborating scientific evidence of this has recently been released by Professor Steven Yantis of the Psychological and Brain Sciences Depts. at Johns Hopkins University.

Here's a link to a 4 1/2 min video presentation of the professor's experiments produced by Johns Hopkins University:

http://www.researchchannel.org/prog/dis ... x?rID=4130


Side Bar: I was prepared to wait till late Sept. when my LAN crew reconvenes to complete balance testing before ever releasing. Instead, I released 3 months early. I believe everything happens for a reason even if it is totally mystifying in the heat of the moment and in this case, after just a wee bit of hindsight, it's been a revelation. As a frame of reference across a broad spectrum of bonafide values it's proving to be a useful tool for discernment and taking a true measure.

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[Rman Virgil]

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Skirmish Version: This was an easy version to make and I did because there are way more Skirmish Players than there are MP Players and I figured why keep you guys waiting for the Elite Mod Version (which will be VERY different than this Ski Version of the Stock Edition).

In this Ski Beta1 version you can play any position 0-3 and you will have a very different experience with each position and those experiences will all have a strong campaign like feel - I guarantee you.

First off - remember to turn Scavengers ON.

Then I recommend -

~ Fog of War

~ Advanced Bases

~ High Power

~ Any Tech Level you like

~ Any Ski A.I. Difficulty Setting that suits you

Again, the is a Skirmish Beta 1.... so I would appreciate any feedback on enhancing the experience or making any specific changes to to issues that may come up..

If you do share your experience here please let me know your set-up and the start Position you played.

Here's the dl link.... the map.wz is in a .zip archive... just take it out and drop it into your Map Folder.

Removed Beta 1 Link

- Enjoy !, RV
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[Rman Virgil]

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SP Skirmish Beta 2 version Uploaded..

Link Removed - Newer version posted with link. See first or last page of this thread.


Overview & Preview..





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[Zarel]

I notice that your "advanced bases" are currently nothing but an HQ. Do you plan on keeping it this way, or adding standard advanced bases later on?