The HPV cannon.

[Olrox]

I don't know if this has been asked.
when you have a concrete wall it seems hvc go straight through them and kill the trucks behind it?
If this is the case I think that part is wrong.

That's probably due to splash damage. But splash damage really shouldn't go through walls, intuitively speaking, but I dunno if it's possible to make that limitation.

~Olrox

[Zarel]

Hyper Velocity Cannon has effectively zero splash (I think it's like 0.25 tiles), so it shouldn't be an issue...

Did Cyp modify the code so Penetrate passes through walls, too?

[Dylan Hsu]

Keep in mind that trucks tend to spontaneously combust a lot, usually due to desync.

[pr0ph33r]

hey guys. uhhh so why has the hpv cannon gotten so many upgrades and stuff? it used to be that heavy cannon would be the weapon of choice, but i guess yall programmers are makin it better than the HC. HC used to be the weapon that u could make units with in mass quantities and kill ur opponent. why has the HPV cannon gotten so much better?

[Zarel]

hey guys. uhhh so why has the hpv cannon gotten so many upgrades and stuff? it used to be that heavy cannon would be the weapon of choice, but i guess yall programmers are makin it better than the HC. HC used to be the weapon that u could make units with in mass quantities and kill ur opponent. why has the HPV cannon gotten so much better?

You just answered your own question.

Why would you take the best weapon in the game and make it even better?

(And I presume you've ignored the Heavy Cannon's new larger splash radius, and higher damage?)

[Tenoh]

in skirmish this cannon is too over powered,one ai tank can kill way too many players units in one shot.few tanks more and i loose my army and my structures.No penetration pls!!! take it away! never needed it and never wanted it!

[Olrox]

in skirmish this cannon is too over powered,one ai tank can kill way too many players units in one shot.few tanks more and i loose my army and my structures.No penetration pls!!! take it away! never needed it and never wanted it!

Yeah, penetration is too much (I think it's already planned to be removed in the furute).
But hey, remember that you can also go for HPVs and similarily use it against your enemies. Problem is, we need real tests (HPV cannon units against multiple different units) to definetely say that it's overpowered. I'm not sure about the ability to hit air, aircraft should render cannon tanks helpless IMO, for balance to be correct. Counter for cannons > something that cannons can't even hit.

I wonder how they go against cyborgs, nobody mentioned that.

~Olrox

[Dalton]

Cyborgs can beat HVC depending on all the variables. As for tanks with lancer and HVC fully upgraded lancer always lost, scourge beat the HVC but it still had to be going in full reverse(away from enemy) to do this. The HVC can do some damage to vtol but if you have enough vtol it is really no concern.

[theArmourer]

I think that Hvc should be a cross between rockets and cannons. So..

Rockets; Attack: High; Hitpoints: low; Weakness: cyborgs

Cannons: Attack: moderate, splash; Hitpoints: High; Weakness: Rockets\cyborgs\HVC(maybe? :-S )

HVC: Attack; moderate, Anti-Armor; Hitpoints: High-Medium; Weakness: Rockets\cyborgs

My ideas of balence are based on a triangle of counter-units.
Rockets>Anti-personnel>cyborgs>rockets ect...
Cannons don't fit in directly with that, HVC even less. They're not anti-personnel, they lose to rockets, their only use is for their high hitpoints,(a meat shield) and smacking down anti-personnel, which can be done by rockets.

This is all to ask, what is a reason to build cannon units?

[Olrox]

This is all to ask, what is a reason to build cannon units?

All-Rounder splash damage, which isn't essentially good against anything but isn't bad either. Cannons are good against soft base structures, if I remember right, and their overall "average" rating is compensated with the high hitpoints, which makes them durable units.

This is my personal way of seeing cannons.

~Olrox

[Zarel]

AP can beat rockets if used properly. For instance, by spamming HMG and cornering them. Or just chasing them down with AG hovers.

Cannons will beat those AP weapons handily. They're good against pretty much anything but lancers, which is really how they should be.

They're also an extremely versatile subclass. Plasma cannons, Assault cannons, HPV, in addition to the regular cannons...

[Olrox]

AP can beat rockets if used properly. For instance, by spamming HMG and cornering them. Or just chasing them down with AG hovers.

Cannons will beat those AP weapons handily. They're good against pretty much anything but lancers, which is really how they should be.

They're also an extremely versatile subclass. Plasma cannons, Assault cannons, HPV, in addition to the regular cannons...

And I've gone testing with a Laser Cannon in a little mod of mine, that played in an interesting way:
Using the following groups/units (I'm gonna contract Laser Cannon as "LC"):
4 LC Retribution Tracks needed 7 LC Retaliation Half-Tracks to loose.
2 LC Vengeance Tracks needed 3 Super Scourge cyborgs to loose.
4 LC Retribution Tracks could be defeated with 3 ungrouped Super HPV Gunners (to avoid splash).
A single LC Python Tracks almost draws with a single Heavy Cannon Python Tracks.
A group of LC Python Tracks wins against a group of HC Python Tracks due to burn+splash damage and accuracy.

Their very long range (16-16) allowed them to easily defend against rocket/missile hit-and-run, especially when used in groups, with its burn damage and good accuracy (75%). They require Hi-Energy Laser Emitter and Needle Gun for researching, so it's somewhat hard to get. Their long range allows them to strike some rocket/missile defenses while staying out of range. They are meant to be tweaked with lower HP than other cannons (Cannon+Laser blend), but the same weight as a HC, also.

~Olrox

[Alpha93]

What's better than a HPV Cannon? Tank Killer guys, Tank Killers. Every skirmish game I play I either since beta 11 I'll spam research to get early either the Lancer/Tank Killer (and then run to Scourges) or HPVs and spam them in large quantities to oppose them against the lovers of Heavies with my higher range
Spamming AT Rockets worked on Arena 22 and Arena 14, while spamming HPV Cannons mounted on LIGHT UNITS (light as in Viper Tracks) worked on the first easy challenge (Back to Basics) as cover for my Sensor unit and my 4 Mortars (later equipped with new Pepperpots) as they were fast to produce and effective against even Heavy units (given you spam them in group of 5 or more per tank, which is perfectly doable)
Almost never used lasers (yeah, dem fuggen laser tanks, kill them with arty while they try to kill your missile/cannon defenses)
Assault Cannon is another kind of cannon I'm trying to discover a use for, seems quite interesting to spam them with light units,mixing them with HPVs and make the opponent "QQ GETTING STEAMROLLED BY DEM EFFING LIGHT UNITS' NUMBAAAZ". Of course you won't be able to keep up only by light units (yeah, once I get Python I spam a bit of them till Vengeance then go mass production).
So I'll go for a "keep the balance as it is".

[Tiberian]

it really depends on how you like your guns...
I personally don't know what i prefer when it comes to TK and HPV, they both wreck stuff properly if you use them correctly.