4c-The Lost River - WIP by Olrox

[Olrox]

Hey, folks: Don't ever click the "Save" button instead of the "Open" one after starting the map editor. It really overwrites you map

I was lucky to export a heightmap today, by the morning, so I won't have *too much* work. I'll make the river area directly gravel ->grass (instead of the snow>gravel snow>gravel>grass, which was a pain in the clock to make and didn't look quite great).

It'll take some (not too much) time to catch up with the progress before the accident, but fortunately I've made the height map in a way so that I can apply auto-cliff to everything and it makes cliffs only where I want to.

[Mysteryem]

Why not try and convert the compiled .wz back to a .lnd file using http://developer.wz2100.net/browser/trunk/tools/map? If you can't, ask someone else (not me).

[Olrox]

Why not try and convert the compiled .wz back to a .lnd file using http://developer.wz2100.net/browser/trunk/tools/map? If you can't, ask someone else (not me).

There's no such thing, as I didn't reach the stage of testing it ingame.
I was pretty close, though.

[Olrox]

I've managed to catch up with the stage I was when I lost the map
(I'm saving 2 copies everytime now, for safekeeping )
Well, I took the opportunity to improve the river's remains' shape (I think it's better, don't you agree?). I'm planning to execute the following positioning:

The Lost River - A new concept 4.PNG

I'm thinking about the positioning of the oil on the river level. I'm thinking about 8, then at the best-balanced situation, each player would have:
1 Main base + 2 Secondary Bases + 2 River level resources = 1x4 + 2x3 + 2 = 12 resources.
That makes for 3 power generators running at full power, which is a well-balanced ammount, I think. Then, on free-for-all games, the last two players would still have enough available resources to supply the maximum 5 power generators and there would be still 8 resources left.

While commenting on these values, please take into consideration that war over oil is a must in this map. I can make versions with more oil later, but the concept itself is to encourage competition for additional resources!

Comments and suggestions are welcome as always. On the next screenshot I'll position the resources so that I can get more specific opinions about that! Many thanks to all those who are following the development of this map.

[KukY]

I like it now.
But I think there should be at least 6 oil in main bases.
And I think there is too much water in the river now.

[Olrox]

But I think there should be at least 6 oil in main bases.
And I think there is too much water in the river now.

That's too much, I'll do an alternate version with more oil, later.
That last phrase sounds really funny, but I was thinking that myself
Hmm, but the player would need to have cyborg transport anyway to access the river level, crossing it wouldn't be a problem :rolleyes:
Do you mean that there is going to be too few tiles for passage, or that there isn't going to be room for features or the oil? Both?

[KukY]

Do you mean that there is going to be too few tiles for passage, or that there isn't going to be room for features or the oil? Both?

I just mean that that area is supposed to be a fertile land that used to be a river, this looks like a river in a dry period of a year.

[Olrox]

Do you mean that there is going to be too few tiles for passage, or that there isn't going to be room for features or the oil? Both?

I just mean that that area is supposed to be a fertile land that used to be a river, this looks like a river in a dry period of a year.

Hmm, I see.

[Rman Virgil]

.

An idea...

Ghost Towns (eye candy): I love eye candy as much as the next fella. Sometimes there are opportunities for eye candy to serve GPM purpose. For example - the Ghost Towns can contain significant caches of Oil Drums. Not only that ..... since Ghost Towns are destructible it can be set-up such that in order to acquire the power / $$ cache you have to destroy at least a part of the Ghost Town.... AND, you have to do that with OUT incinerating the cache itself ! Something of an added twist and embedded challenge without having to script.

Just a passing thought.

Like what your doing so far.

Mitaguyasin, RV
.

[Olrox]

.

An idea...

Ghost Towns (eye candy): I love eye candy as much as the next fella. Sometimes there are opportunities for eye candy to serve GPM purpose. For example - the Ghost Towns can contain significant caches of Oil Drums. Not only that ..... since Ghost Towns are destructible it can be set-up such that in order to acquire the power / $$ cache you have to destroy at least a part of the Ghost Town.... AND, you have to do that with OUT incinerating the cache itself ! Something of an added twist and embedded challenge without having to script.

Just a passing thought.

Like what your doing so far.

Mitaguyasin, RV
.

You're the dinossaur with the best "passing thoughts" around, that's brilliant and I didn't think about this kind of "bonus" for destroying neutral structures yet xD

Really, that's another great addition to the distinct concept I'm working with on this map.

Now about the scavengers - could someone tell me how to make them work like real scavengers (that can be enabled/disabled via pre-game settings)? Adding them as player 7 didn't work, and as I thought, they were just another regular player with ordinary AI, that wouldn't even build any units (not 100% sure, but I've added a scav factory, scav power gen, oil derricks - atop oil resources, of course - and even a sensor tower and they were completely passive. I think that if I've added a truck they would build normal structures and units)

I'd be really happy if someone could at least tell me "this info is <here>", I'm sorry to be lazy to search (I'm working on the map right now )!

[Olrox]

Ok, I did search around and couldn't find a really good answer. Must I really add the scavengers to player 7, even though the map is only 4-player? Will it work, if they aren't really an included player? Will they be only static, barely reacting to attacks and not building any units, or will they start to screw up with the "scavenger" thing by building regular buildings/units?

I'm posting in the adequate place, so that I do not pollute this too much with explanations/questions:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1303&p=47771#p47771
It was infamous gravedigging, but it's for a noble cause (I think )

[Zarel]

Ok, I did search around and couldn't find a really good answer. Must I really add the scavengers to player 7, even though the map is only 4-player? Will it work, if they aren't really an included player? Will they be only static, barely reacting to attacks and not building any units, or will they start to screw up with the "scavenger" thing by building regular buildings/units?

Scavengers must be player 7. They are only available on 2p and 4p maps.

They are specialized-AI-controlled. They will produce scavenger units, and no structures. Just try an existing map, like Rush, that has scavengers; you'll see how they work.

[Olrox]

Scavengers must be player 7. They are only available on 2p and 4p maps.

They are specialized-AI-controlled. They will produce scavenger units, and no structures. Just try an existing map, like Rush, that has scavengers; you'll see how they work.

Many thanks for the focused explanation. I assume they'll work fine on MP games, right? :rolleyes:

I'll keep on trying in the afternoon, I'll get some sleep now

[Olrox]

Nice, nice, nice! I've managed to make the first test - against the first Scav Base
I kept sending groups of different compositions, always making a diversified force to get really average results. I didn't use artillery, I think it would make things easier, especially by taking out Flamers and Lancer pits before the main forces get inside the base.
I want to make those scavengers somewhat tough, so that the players have to wage war against them before getting to beat each other. I'll add scavengers to the passages between the bases to avoid tower rushes, also :rolleyes:

Here is a screenshot of the base:

wz2100_shot_007.JPG

The first force that managed to destroy all the bases' structures and units was this force:

wz2100_shot_006.JPG

Those are:
10 Machinegunners;
10 Heavy Gunners;
2 Heavy Machinegun Cobra Half-Tracks;
3 Light Cannon Cobra Half-Tracks;
3 Medium Cannon Cobra Half-Tracks;
3 Mini-Rocket Pod Cobra Half-Tracks;
5 Flamer Cobra Hovers.
That's a 36 units, diversified, mid-T1, medium-sized force - No big deal but no ride in the park in this tech stage either.

After the battle, the survivors, with their health & rank visible, were:

wz2100_shot_005.JPG

Those are:
2 Heavy Gunners, both Green;
2 Heavy Machinegun Cobra Half-Tracks, 1 Green, 1 Trained;
2 Light Cannon Cobra Half-Tracks, both Green;
3 Medium Cannon Cobra Half-Tracks, 2 Green, 1 Rookie;
1 Mini-Rocket Pod Cobra Half-Tracks, Rookie.
That's 10 survivors, moderately diversified - the cannons lasted best, as they have more HP. The Medium cannons ended with the most HP left because of that, and because they arrived soon after the beginning of the battle, therefore the firing wasn't concentrated in them.

I think that those results are good, and I could have retained a few more experienced units by making the Machinegunners and Flamers retreat at medium damage and the other ones retreat at heavy damage. Those Scavengers are posing a decent challenge for the players at the beginning of the game, and since they possess significant oil resources, they are going to be the first targets, and since they aren't too weak, the players will need to develop a bit before going for the secondary bases.

Does anyone think that those are too strong, or should be even stronger? Comments?
I was very pleased myself even with the little fight against the scavs xD
I'll start attaching Beta testing versions of the map here as soon as I've finished all the secondary bases

[Safety0ff]

That scavenger base looks pretty good!

In the snow pic, it looks like there are issues with the alpha of the textures, that I don't see in the third pic. Which version are you using? Can you provide any more details about this?