Warzone 2100 Forums

hjhjhj wrote: Well, i have, once -.- but not on a stock map..

BeNexus T1
No base :rolleyes:
Energi high

All buildings allowed..

All i did where to cut my self out from the middle. Every attack BP is sending cant survive lancers(Which were the research i rushed for) and artillery. Then have a lot of ''weak'' units prepared if BP send out Bunkerbusters to take the almost ''no damage on vehicle'' attack. Then i keept researching and did a lot of AA (Important!)
After he takes out one AA site with VTOL, i replaced it immediately. I had AA turrets on Cobra halftracks to cover them from a longer distance into the ''Battlezone'' with some cannons, lancers, and HMG. Once i got plasmite Flamer i attacked with 3 big waves. All with Hover propelusions, to take out the most of his defense.
20*3 Plasmite flamer Python/Mantis(for fire bunkers and borgs)

Then, after some more research because BP were not sending any waves for about 10 min, i upgraded my defense to sourge missile(and that helped me alot from his giant attack) and i counter attacked with a big wave:
With Sourge missile/Gauss cannon Tiger tracks i took him out. I used VTOL to take out heavy defense points (first time i use vtol for anything than Strike-Tower attacks/defense) And there, a finished BP,

(****, it took me almost 2 hours :rolleyes:

Because of its attacks and strats. FORMÌDABLE! It destroyed almost ALL, of my defense with one wave of VTOLS, bunkerbusters, and lancers. But had artillery in base :rolleyes:

That sounds like a real fun game. Thanks for sharing your tactics. I'd like to try it out.

hjhjhj wrote:
hmm, BP didnt play anything like a turtle on the BeNexus with, i think, has more than 16 oil in the big base area

hjhjhj I'm not familiar with the "BeNexus" map. I'd like to play it and also study it for BP's behavior on it. Could you post the map file as a.rar attachment
here so I can check it out. Appreciate it. Thanks...

Zarel wrote:You know, Tib and I played 2v2 against BecomePrey on both Rush and Mountain, and won fairly easily (Medium Power - T1 No Bases). It spent the early game rushing tons of MG viper wheels at us, but by putting up tons of MG towers at strategic locations, we dispatched them fairly easily, and quickly got a research advantage and won both times.

I don't think BecomePrey is good at splitting up research with its allies, which is why it's more effective at 1v1 than 2v2.

I agree on that last. I should take a closer look at the alliance scripts outta curiosity. Getting the research advantage over BP is key for sure but if BP can stay ahead that makes for it's greatest advantage, I think. It has been my greatest struggle vs BP one on one - I knew exactly what was happening and what I had to do but I could never counter fast enough.

Regards, whipper
.

whippersnapper wrote:hjhjhj I'm not familiar with the "BeNexus" map. I'd like to play it and also study it for BP's behavior on it. Could you post the map file as a.rar attachment
here so I can check it out. Appreciate it. Thanks...

You can find the map here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2125#p20128

I think BecomePrey looks quite good, but it suffers from a number of issues that have been fixed in the current official AI, like doing alliances properly and not building yourself into a corner so that you can't get out of your base. Once those issues are fixed BecomePrey might be awesome.

Is there anyone who can receive bug reports about BecomePrey and fix problems like that?

Per wrote:I think BecomePrey looks quite good, but it suffers from a number of issues that have been fixed in the current official AI, like doing alliances properly and not building yourself into a corner so that you can't get out of your base. Once those issues are fixed BecomePrey might be awesome.

Is there anyone who can receive bug reports about BecomePrey and fix problems like that?

Who fixed the current official AI? Once we fix BP the same way (and perhaps fix the research), I'd like to replace Aivolution with it.

Zarel wrote:Who fixed the current official AI?

Troman was pretty much the only person who ever touched the AI scripts.

Mysteryem wrote: You can find the map here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2125#p20128

Thank you.

hjhjhj wrote:
hmm, BP didnt play anything like a turtle on the BeNexus with, i think, has more than 16 oil in the big base area

I understand why that's the case here. The map maker did not at all optimize for Skirmish A.I. Game Play. In fact there are embedded some
serious obstacles to good A.I. performance. Plus the map maker essentially built Turtle enclosures (landscape walls) without the weaps - as opposed to an exposed base platform. Also..... the way the resources were done actually makes this map favor 2 human players in MP and NOT at all a human against the Ski A.I. like "Start-Up" for example. In sum, this map is NOT well balanced for skirmish A.I.

My original comment:

whippersnapper wrote:

Maps designed with 12-16 oil wells in the base perimeter will make BP play like a Hard Shell Turtle.... it will
build like so

Applies to maps well designed, well balanced, for skirmish vs the a.i, and not just human vs. human play. Doing both
simultaneously is the challenge many maps out there fall short of, IMO.

It's amazing to me how little is ascribed to map design within WZ - both good and bad. Could be a reflection of how little
is understood about the relationship with skirmish a.i. functionality. Would also explain why the finger is always pointed at the
a.i. when an examination of the specific map would clearly reveal the responsible map making shortcomings.

Regards, whipper
.

whippersnapper wrote:I understand why that's the case here. The map maker did not at all optimize for Skirmish A.I. Game Play. In fact there are embedded some
serious obstacles to good A.I. performance. Plus the map maker essentially built Turtle enclosures (landscape walls) without the weaps - as opposed to an exposed base platform. Also..... the way the resources were done actually makes this map favor 2 human players in MP and NOT at all a human against the Ski A.I. like "Start-Up" for example. In sum, this map is NOT well balanced for skirmish A.I.

Ehm, my fault, i think, ..

The reasons i dont like Startup is, that BP gets, well, ''truck jammed''
Also in Clover and Manhatten(the maps that i am sure of it does it)

The trucks go to a wall, and gets jammed. Its like they are trying to go through the wall??

Will post a picture later

The trucks just get jammed and are trying to go through or over???

Used debug to get the satelite uplink and other codes to take him out for fun


(Does this need a Bugreport???)

hjhjhj wrote:
Ehm, my fault, i think, ..

No... not at all. I'm glad you mentioned the map so I could check it out, really.
There's no blame or finger-pointing towards you at all.

The reasons i dont like Startup is, that BP gets, well, ''truck jammed''
Also in Clover and Manhatten(the maps that i am sure of it does it)

The trucks go to a wall, and gets jammed. Its like they are trying to go through the wall??

Will post a picture later

Hmmm... yea take a screen cap. A lot of times that happens, especially at the start of a game - when trucks
try to go through walls or impassable terrain (cliff) - because they are ranging on an Oil Resource (Truck A.I.)
and the actual path to reach the resource is out-of-range. The easy fix is to have oil placements by access points
as the crow-flies radiating outward (full 360 degrees) from all the base platforms...

This happens in the corners of the "BeNexus" map where there are oil resources just the other side of
cliff-face wall with no access path. For a map intended to be played in skirmish vs the A.I. this is a map-maker
mistake that is very easy to fix. But maybe it is too much to ask of a map-maker to understand how the Truck A.I.
functions under these conditions

If you play any of Lav's maps (which without a doubt pose the most complex pathing for the a.i.) BP flows throughout
without these probs because in play-testing extensively Lav finds the few spots this happens and then fixes it. Lots
of maps out there with probs of this sort can readily be fixed in 32EW and are not really dependent on a recoded,
multi-threaded, PF, imo.

Regards, whipper

EDIT:

hjhjhj wrote:

wz2100_shot_017.png

The trucks just get jammed and are trying to go through or over???

Used debug to get the satelite uplink and other codes to take him out for fun


(Does this need a Bugreport???)

That could fall under a Map Fix. Besides Oil Resources, Truck A.I. also ranges on Gates
to build defenses. If that is "Start-up", I'll see is I can get it to duplicate the problem - but
I'd also have to look at the map .LND file to see if there is a GW placed there.

.
.

.

Well this happened with BP on Start-Up in a different spot but also well into a full developed base and many combat
units deployed and claiming most all the oil.

In this case the fix is simple - make an access ramp.

I couldn't get it to duplicated the jam in the spot on your screen - so I don't know what's going on there.

Regards, whipper:)
.

hjhjhj wrote:

wz2100_shot_017.png

The trucks just get jammed and are trying to go through or over???

Used debug to get the satelite uplink and other codes to take him out for fun


(Does this need a Bugreport???)

Which version is this? Try enabling cheat mode and pressing ctrl+m to see where they are trying to go.

The version is 2.2.0( The newest )

Will do the ctrl+m later, (not home)

The mods enabled is BP only.
--------------Edit

Forgot a smiley

I've just tried BP in 2.2 on Windows.

IMO this is a significant improvement over the previous AIs.

I played a couple 1vs1vs1vs1 games. All went one of these ways:

1) More than one AI attacks me early => I die.
2) At most one attacks me early => I am able to defend myself against the early rushes using machinge gun bunkers and later viper-halftrack-light cannon. One of the AIs becomes stronger than the others, takes out at least one other, but then starts turtling. While turtling they neglect everything else, including building units and oil derricks. This allows me to get mortars and better vehicles while they don't make much progress and I win.

Philipp

excuse me ... my dad keeps owning this ai ^^; in any map he just defeats them

he also play'd with vtol and without , so any ways to let my dad go down? :O

DarkCheetah wrote:excuse me ... my dad keeps owning this ai ^^; in any map he just defeats them

he also play'd with vtol and without , so any ways to let my dad go down? :O

When 2.2.1 comes out, try playing on Miza against 7 allied normal AIs. If you survive the initial ground attacks, you will be owned by their waves of VTOL attacks.