(Re)Programming Warzone (Discussion)

[AWarZoner]

I'd personally like to see the tiny and crippled built-in map editor of 2.3 actually work, and with terrain setting etc. Let it save .wz files with a dialog for player count and then your map editor IS the game. I've been looking into this.
Doesn't 3.1 still have it to some extent?

EDIT: Yes it does, but it crashes when you click the 'new' button to enter into it in the debug menu.

Where can I get this editor? Is it part of Warzone 2100!

[Rman Virgil]

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@ AWarZoner:

* Mono is an open source, cross-platform, implementation of C#.

* HACK has always been defined as breaking into computer systems or software.

* Neither is a matter of opinion.

* Winging it with Google can only get you so far and that's not nearly far enough to enable proficient understanding, let alone skills, from my vantage.
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[AWarZoner]

* Mono is an open source, cross-platform, implementation of C#.

True, but C# was written for Windows because MS didn't like C++!

* HACK has always been defined as breaking into computer systems or software.

Yes hacking Windows liberaries as well! I use the term "hack" because the liberaries were written for Windows!

* Neither is a matter of opinion.

My opinion is that they hack Windows liberaries! As stated above!

* Winging it with Google can only get you so far and that's not nearly far enough to enable proficient understanding, let alone skills, from my vantage.
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Where did I "Wing" it with Google? I agree about skills!

[Rman Virgil]

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So let me see if I can summarize what I'm getting from your posts.

MS has been developing cross platform technologies for almost a decade and half because they simply didn't like C++ and because they wanted WIN, and it's libraries, to be readily "hacked" by those using said cross platform technologies they developed.... ?

And the "winging" Google crack (or Duck Duck go, same dif) comes from seeing this pattern in our exchanges from the get go:

- You make a post that strikes me as missing some specific understanding.

- I point out those specifics.

- You respond that you are well aware of those specifics, thoroughly understand them, but think their value is much less because they are actually something other than what they claim to be. Thus they are to be discounted from any legit consideration, which is why they didn't factor in your initial declarations, though you knew all about them already.

- Then from what I gather, you are proposing to learn all these different SW technologies, have never had any experience codeing even the simplest app in any of them, but yet you know enough, here and now, from zero experience, to make claims of what is best and how you are gonna single handedly take on huge development projects from scratch because you have the time and because other coders with vastly deeper experience, and proven proficiency, have done so successfully in the past.

Have I correctly comprehended ?

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[AWarZoner]

MS has been developing cross platform technologies for almost a decade and half because they simply didn't like C++ and because they wanted WIN, and it's libraries, to be readily "hacked" by those using said cross platform technologies they developed.... ?

No I am trying to say: "MS created C# because they wanted their own programming language and libraries and they didn't want it to get 'hacked'". I don't like mono because it builds on a non open source language and libraries. That's why I prefer C++!

[bendib]

@AWarZoner: Tell me what this is without searching with DDG/Google and I give you a cookie. If you can't get it, you probably need to learn more before attempting the map editor.

void *(*Derp(int (*Herp[2])[]))(char *const Arg);

[AWarZoner]

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@bendib: I think in C

Code: Select all

void

means you set a

Code: Select all

int / str / etc.

to empty/nothing. So it means nothing!

@Rman Virgil: I am glad that we clarified the point about 'hacking'! NOw about C#. C# is not well integrated into MacOS and Linux without extra software for e.g. Mono. While C++ is integrated into Windows, MacOS and Linux. This is why I prefer C++.

>

[bendib]

@AWarZoner: No. It's a function that happens to return a pointer to another function that would return a pointer to void. Void is somewhat useless (or illegal as a pointer) in C++, I can't recall. Quite useful in C however. Since it's syntactically valid in both languages, it made a fine example in either case.

[Rman Virgil]

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@ AWarZoner: Maybe you will enjoy what Linus Torvalds has to say about C++.

....

C++ is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot
of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much
easier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even if
the choice of C were to do *nothing* but keep the C++ programmers out,
that in itself would be a huge reason to use C.
.....

C++ leads to really really bad design choices. You invariably start using
the "nice" library features of the language like STL and Boost and other
total and utter crap, that may "help" you program, but causes:

- infinite amounts of pain when they don't work (and anybody who tells me
that STL and especially Boost are stable and portable is just so full
of BS that it's not even funny)

- inefficient abstracted programming models where two years down the road
you notice that some abstraction wasn't very efficient, but now all
your code depends on all the nice object models around it, and you
cannot fix it without rewriting your app.


In other words, the only way to do good, efficient, and system-level and
portable C++ ends up to limit yourself to all the things that are
basically available in C. And limiting your project to C means that people
don't screw that up, and also means that you get a lot of programmers that
do actually understand low-level issues and don't screw things up with any
idiotic "object model" crap.

.......

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[AWarZoner]

I know about his feeling towards/considerd C++.
Gtk to Qt - a strange journey. <<== Please watch it!

[Rman Virgil]

I know about his feeling towards/considerd C++.

I'm sure Linus has feelings but I think in this case feelings were preceded by an objective reasoning process, many years of practical experience in RL and proven codeing prowess beyond the ordinary.

Now you have to already know I am compelled to ask this follow-up question.

Since you learned WZ was written in C why in the world would you even contemplate re-writing it from the ground up in C++ ? What are the specifics of your reasoning ?

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[AWarZoner]

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I like C++. I would like to write a OS in C++!
My programming language of choice is C++ where Linus choice is C.

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[Rman Virgil]

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I like C++. I would like to write a OS in C++!
My programming language of choice is C++ where Linus choice is C.

>

Well that sounds like a core passion to me and that you must honor by living it because, one way or another, it will become a part of your fate.

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[AWarZoner]

I will! It will also honor Bjarne Stroustrup's vision of C++ replacing C!

[Rman Virgil]

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Well AWarZoner, because of this discussion, I checked out 3 interviews today.

One by Linus Torvalds just conducted a few days ago:

http://www.infoworld.com/t/linux/linus- ... rce=footer

And two interviews with Bjarne Stroustrup:

http://electronicdesign.com/dev-tools/i ... iscusses-c

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc500572.aspx

Facinating. I wonder if anyone has ever considered getting these titans in the same room and conducting a well moderated discussion between them. I'd check that out in a heartbeat even if it meant shelling out cold cash.

That said, I need to get back to my language passion full tilt, which is English, and a SF novel started over a year ago (which I'm also illustrating following the publishing tradition of 19th century fiction books). This brings me to also answer your posted suggestion in my "Pangaea" thread about doing something more ambitious with Scavs - no can do. And its more an issue of energy than time. Only have so much and thus have to choose, out of all that appeals, a managable subset of what I want most to invest my pastime energy in. For the foreseeable future, it's the illustrated SF novel.

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