It is a fork of the code... We use the same code as 1.10 did, and you will use that as well. So you fork of. Whether you do from a point in the past or future doesn't matter...
PS: Before you someday create a real release, we should sit together and get the naming clear...
EDIT: Reference link was missing: http://warzone2100.strategyplanet.games ... c.php?t=11
Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
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DevUrandom
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
Last edited by DevUrandom on 08 Nov 2007, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
.DevUrandom wrote: It is a fork of the code... We use the same code as 1.10 did, and you will use that as well. So you fork of. Whether you do from a point in the past or future doesn't matter...
PS: Before you someday create a real release, we should sit together and get the naming clear...
* Guess that's @ me.
* K.... ALL versions after Pumpkin v.1.10 are forks... works for me.
* "Real Release" is redundant as a release presumes reality unless you are suggesting something like a "bogus release"... I'm sure you just meant release.
* As far as names... here are some under "consideration"...
* "WZ 2100++: The Steriods Pack"
* "WZ 2100: The Big Kahuna Version"
* "WZ 2100: Hyper Enhanced To Transfix"
* "WZ 2100: The Millenium Edition"
* "WZ 2100: Bad Ass & Bodacious"
* "WZ 2100: Chit Hits The Fan"
* "WZ 2100: Enhanced In Your Face Butt Kickin' Fun"
* "WZ 2100: The REAL Heat of Battle Edition"
* "WZ 2100: Totally There, Blood 'n Guts"
* Would those work ?
* Just kidding, being somewhat silly & jolly.
* Sounds reasonable enough, so as not to create confusion. Beta-testing will commence soon so after that's over would seem like the best time for a pow-wow over the different branding.
- Cheers,RV
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Buginator
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
How I missed this whole forum section, I dunno.
Anyway, Grimmoroe, sorry to hear that. You did some fine work, and I am sure most people do appreciate all the work you put into it. Prehaps we will chat again on IRC sometime.
Switching topics a bit,
As a Noob(inator
) concerning the FMV, yes, it would be nice to view those vids. Yeah, it would only be for windows, and only for people who own the originals as it isn't legal for this project, or any other to release the .dll and the FMVs that were not included in the archive as Giel points out. I know they included lots of stuff in the archive, but if one part is "illegal", does that mean the whole release is that, or just that part? I see most people say they just follow "good faith". That isn't good enough for most GPL people though.
Correct me if I am wrong, but nobody has stepped forward with any video replacements, and without some content, it would be pointless to have support in the code right now. I did look over parts of the code, and while it would be a PITA to put back the parts that were ripped out, I could have a go at this. Most likely would have to use ffmpeg. Baring that, pics & text could be done, but I haven't found any material I could use. I would start with something small, like the inteligence report stuff, that you see the video frame next to the weapon/unit.
Heck, even without content, I may just experiment with playback. And if this project don't like the code, I can knife it. Then fork it. Then use chopsticks on it.
Sorry for the slightly off main topic chatter.
Anyway, Grimmoroe, sorry to hear that. You did some fine work, and I am sure most people do appreciate all the work you put into it. Prehaps we will chat again on IRC sometime.
Switching topics a bit,
As a Noob(inator
) concerning the FMV, yes, it would be nice to view those vids. Yeah, it would only be for windows, and only for people who own the originals as it isn't legal for this project, or any other to release the .dll and the FMVs that were not included in the archive as Giel points out. I know they included lots of stuff in the archive, but if one part is "illegal", does that mean the whole release is that, or just that part? I see most people say they just follow "good faith". That isn't good enough for most GPL people though.Correct me if I am wrong, but nobody has stepped forward with any video replacements, and without some content, it would be pointless to have support in the code right now. I did look over parts of the code, and while it would be a PITA to put back the parts that were ripped out, I could have a go at this. Most likely would have to use ffmpeg. Baring that, pics & text could be done, but I haven't found any material I could use. I would start with something small, like the inteligence report stuff, that you see the video frame next to the weapon/unit.
Heck, even without content, I may just experiment with playback. And if this project don't like the code, I can knife it. Then fork it. Then use chopsticks on it.
Sorry for the slightly off main topic chatter.
and it ends here.
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Chojun
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
The FMV .dll issue is a lot simpler than everyone realizes (for windows people, anyway)..
The best thing to do when your philosophies don't stand up to debate is to lock the thread and claim victory.
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kage
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
all i remember is that, just before the source release, back at the p-2 forums it was mentioned that the ex-pumpkin that was packaging it had been given the go-ahead by eidos, but had to remove code that pumpkin didn't exclusively own (or that wasn't considered defunct by eidos), and either in that post, or in hand with the source release, it was specifically mentioned that he was taking the rpl-specific code out as part of that.
now if that was false, and the *gpl source release* came with intact rpl interface code, and you can reassure some of us that packaging the rpl.dll with the source isn't a violation of either license, then i doubt that any of the devs would mind the reinclusion of the old rpl code within a set of ifdef's.
otoh, if the gpl release didn't have the rpl code, and you can assure us that including it in wrp won't get kamaze sued, and the dll can be legally packaged with (or you dynamically load it at runtime -- use it if it's there, or no rpl playback if it's not), then once again, i'm sure the devs wouldn't mind the code being between a set of ifdef's.
either way, this is a community of individuals, and to my knowledge, most, if not all, of the current developers weren't associated with this community (or at least touching the code) until some time after the release, and the purported 'sneaky' removal of the rpl code, so i don't think anyone really knows what happened, if anything happened at all. and since all the devs have their own agendas, it's certainly not fair to ask any one of them to include such compat code when many of them may not care, or when the change cannot benefit their platform of choice.
aside from that, i hope your endeavor will painless (henceforth), quick, and give lots of windows users something new to look for in wz gpl.
now if that was false, and the *gpl source release* came with intact rpl interface code, and you can reassure some of us that packaging the rpl.dll with the source isn't a violation of either license, then i doubt that any of the devs would mind the reinclusion of the old rpl code within a set of ifdef's.
otoh, if the gpl release didn't have the rpl code, and you can assure us that including it in wrp won't get kamaze sued, and the dll can be legally packaged with (or you dynamically load it at runtime -- use it if it's there, or no rpl playback if it's not), then once again, i'm sure the devs wouldn't mind the code being between a set of ifdef's.
either way, this is a community of individuals, and to my knowledge, most, if not all, of the current developers weren't associated with this community (or at least touching the code) until some time after the release, and the purported 'sneaky' removal of the rpl code, so i don't think anyone really knows what happened, if anything happened at all. and since all the devs have their own agendas, it's certainly not fair to ask any one of them to include such compat code when many of them may not care, or when the change cannot benefit their platform of choice.
aside from that, i hope your endeavor will painless (henceforth), quick, and give lots of windows users something new to look for in wz gpl.
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DevUrandom
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
With the rpl dll, if I am not mistaken, it is like this: It was not released under the GPL (we are even missing code for it) and we neither got explicit permission to redistribute it, so it is a bit tricky to do that... It's like with those dll distribution sites. They are illegal, but do still exist.
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EvilGuru
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
If we spent as much time asking Pumpkin (well Pivotal) to release the FMVs under the GPL as we do beating this .dll issue around the bush we would probably have them by now. I think all we would need is a notice/document that says they are under the GNU GPL; we could do the rest ourselves (getting them off the CDs, transcoding &c).
Come on, we have beaten this issue to hell and back. I have no problem discussing it, but every discussion regarding it tends to reach/end with the same old conclusion. No one ever brings anything new to the table.
Regards, Freddie.
Come on, we have beaten this issue to hell and back. I have no problem discussing it, but every discussion regarding it tends to reach/end with the same old conclusion. No one ever brings anything new to the table.
Regards, Freddie.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
------->
* 1st @ Kage: The main concerns Alex had when preparing the source for liberation was removing all the Sony proprietary PSX Code - PERIOD.
* The 2nd concern was bandwith.... at first he wanted to do a "seeding" set-up (with Bit-Torrent) & talked him into scratching that & passing it on directly to Radiosity & Cowboys servers (I coulda had it put on my server but I felt that this had to be a community effort - and the community came thru like champs).
* "Bandwidth"...... that's why he didn't inc the FMVs & because he knew many of us already had them so it would be no prob for us to distro it both ways.
* @ the rest of ya...
* You guys need to do some deeper research - there actually is "something new to bring to the table" - at least on the WIN side of distribution. .... I can't speak to the concerns of the *nix free server services sites, however....
* Alex has known about all this FMV chit - excuse the "french" - & his answer is if you all really need to have that additional reassurance in the form of an add-on "paper-trail" then do the "leg-work" with the Legal Dept @ SCi / Gotham Games / Eidos, yourselves.....
* He put enough of his personal time over the years getting WZ liberated (that's right, years, even beforw the petition) & for as much as they all still love Wz & how it's been kept alive.... they are WAY TOO BUSY creating new Pivotal Games & having a personal life when they can, to spend anytime doing the aforesaid "legwork"...... so don't even bother pleading with Pivotal about any of this - they're outta the loop, it won't do ya any good ?
* Anyhow.... based on all the current research (which anyone here can do if inclined) plus what I mentioned about the original libreation distro modus - I am convinced this is a moot issue.... and FMV support & distro will proceed on this end in all likelyhood (I don't make the final decisions.... this is merely my PoV at this juncture...)
- Cheers, RV
* 1st @ Kage: The main concerns Alex had when preparing the source for liberation was removing all the Sony proprietary PSX Code - PERIOD.
* The 2nd concern was bandwith.... at first he wanted to do a "seeding" set-up (with Bit-Torrent) & talked him into scratching that & passing it on directly to Radiosity & Cowboys servers (I coulda had it put on my server but I felt that this had to be a community effort - and the community came thru like champs
).* "Bandwidth"...... that's why he didn't inc the FMVs & because he knew many of us already had them so it would be no prob for us to distro it both ways.
* @ the rest of ya...
* You guys need to do some deeper research - there actually is "something new to bring to the table" - at least on the WIN side of distribution. .... I can't speak to the concerns of the *nix free server services sites, however....
* Alex has known about all this FMV chit - excuse the "french" - & his answer is if you all really need to have that additional reassurance in the form of an add-on "paper-trail" then do the "leg-work" with the Legal Dept @ SCi / Gotham Games / Eidos, yourselves.....
* He put enough of his personal time over the years getting WZ liberated (that's right, years, even beforw the petition) & for as much as they all still love Wz & how it's been kept alive.... they are WAY TOO BUSY creating new Pivotal Games & having a personal life when they can, to spend anytime doing the aforesaid "legwork"...... so don't even bother pleading with Pivotal about any of this - they're outta the loop, it won't do ya any good ?
* Anyhow.... based on all the current research (which anyone here can do if inclined) plus what I mentioned about the original libreation distro modus - I am convinced this is a moot issue.... and FMV support & distro will proceed on this end in all likelyhood (I don't make the final decisions.... this is merely my PoV at this juncture...)
- Cheers, RV
Last edited by Rman Virgil on 13 Nov 2007, 00:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
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kage
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
well, that works for me, and definitely clears a lot of things up. we may need legal assurance from sci / eidos before gna would be willing to host converted versions of the vids (maybe, maybe not), but that doesn't stop us from hosting it on a 3rd party server.
i think the best option is to try to do a very accurate rip of the vids from rpl to a format less esoteric (like mpg, avi, whatever), and make those available for download -- these vids could be supported on all platforms, and if some of the winfolk develop interface code for the rpl.dll cooperatively (hey, great), or independently with another project (in which case we could backport it into wrp), then those who own copies of the game discs can forgoe the download and just have the windows wrp installer pull the rpl files off of the disc and use those.
1. if it is okay to redistribute a proprietary dll with the gpl source (i know the distribution doesn't clash with the gpl, and i don't think use of the code does, either). if distribution is not okay, alternatively can we host the dll seperately.
2. make sure the video *content*, dialogues, and storyline were released with the gpl.
i think the best option is to try to do a very accurate rip of the vids from rpl to a format less esoteric (like mpg, avi, whatever), and make those available for download -- these vids could be supported on all platforms, and if some of the winfolk develop interface code for the rpl.dll cooperatively (hey, great), or independently with another project (in which case we could backport it into wrp), then those who own copies of the game discs can forgoe the download and just have the windows wrp installer pull the rpl files off of the disc and use those.
i think that's a great idea. if only we (you) had thought/mentioned that a year ago. some people, of course, may be considering that depending on how official they need their assurances to be. like rman said, alex has worked his ass off for us all, and he deserves his rest -- if we need assurance, we should just go to sci/eidos, because, afaict, they're the only ones that might still care, and i do remember that any awkwardness about the videos was not the vid content, but the proprietary rpl format. so if anyone does ask eidos, they should ask:EvilGuru wrote: If we spent as much time asking Pumpkin (well Pivotal) to release the FMVs under the GPL as we do beating this .dll issue around the bush we would probably have them by now. I think all we would need is a notice/document that says they are under the GNU GPL; we could do the rest ourselves (getting them off the CDs, transcoding &c).
1. if it is okay to redistribute a proprietary dll with the gpl source (i know the distribution doesn't clash with the gpl, and i don't think use of the code does, either). if distribution is not okay, alternatively can we host the dll seperately.
2. make sure the video *content*, dialogues, and storyline were released with the gpl.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
---------->
* OH, yea.... something else I forgot to mention & think the ol timers have even forgotten....
* In the original liberated distro we got directly from Alex he included a little somethin-somethin...
* It wasn't a big deal in and of itself but as a precident (in a legal sense) it has significant ramifications, IMHO...
* What was / is it that Alex included....
* A FMV that was never used in the CAM !!!!
* Think 'bout it.
- RV
* OH, yea.... something else I forgot to mention & think the ol timers have even forgotten....
* In the original liberated distro we got directly from Alex he included a little somethin-somethin...
* It wasn't a big deal in and of itself but as a precident (in a legal sense) it has significant ramifications, IMHO...
* What was / is it that Alex included....
* A FMV that was never used in the CAM !!!!
* Think 'bout it.
- RV
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
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Buginator
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
Is this up anywhere? I'd love to see it!Rman Virgil wrote: ---------->
* OH, yea.... something else I forgot to mention & think the ol timers have even forgotten....
* In the original liberated distro we got directly from Alex he included a little somethin-somethin...
* It wasn't a big deal in and of itself but as a precident (in a legal sense) it has significant ramifications, IMHO...
* What was / is it that Alex included....
* A FMV that was never used in the CAM !!!!
* Think 'bout it.
- RV
EvilGuru, from what I read, there have been a few attempts to contact anyone who would listen about this enigma, and nobody has responded one way or the other. So it is stuck in perpetual limbo. That is until 120 years pass, then those FMVs are free, free at last!
and it ends here.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
------->
* @ Buginator: A few sites had it up back in the day. Today - I don't know. Maybe Bronco @ Strategy Planet or the warzone.de crew. I'm sure it's resident on a # of HDs. Like I said, nothing special about it & the overall quality was not up to the published FMVs but that still doesnot detract from its legal significance (if anyone cares to look into it, do the "leg-work" & stop yappin presumptions & assumptions.... that is, follow the "evidence-based medicine" protocol).
- Cheers, RV
* @ Buginator: A few sites had it up back in the day. Today - I don't know. Maybe Bronco @ Strategy Planet or the warzone.de crew. I'm sure it's resident on a # of HDs. Like I said, nothing special about it & the overall quality was not up to the published FMVs but that still doesnot detract from its legal significance (if anyone cares to look into it, do the "leg-work" & stop yappin presumptions & assumptions.... that is, follow the "evidence-based medicine" protocol).
- Cheers, RV
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
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Echo
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
Contrast
Reach
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Trust
Echo
.
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kage
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
i played around with the rpl player that came on just about rpl demo discs -- upon viewing all of the rpl's on the wz cd, i seemed to notice one or two that didn't end up in game. are you talking about any of those, or one exclusively released by alex? i may also be thinking of thief 2 having those extra movies, so i'm not sure.
whoa, this has got to be one of the most hijacked threads this forum has ever had.
whoa, this has got to be one of the most hijacked threads this forum has ever had.
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Rman Virgil
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
* Alex was very specific. He said he was including it in the distro that was put on Radiosity & Cowboys servers & that's where we found it.kage wrote: i played around with the rpl player that came on just about rpl demo discs -- upon viewing all of the rpl's on the wz cd, i seemed to notice one or two that didn't end up in game. are you talking about any of those, or one exclusively released by alex? i may also be thinking of thief 2 having those extra movies, so i'm not sure.
whoa, this has got to be one of the most hijacked threads this forum has ever had.
* Grim don't mind 'bout the highjacking, I venture to guess.
- RV
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
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EvilGuru
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Re: Goodbye WRP forum peeps.
If you are correct here (and I would hedge a bet you are) then would it be okay to treat the FMVs like the artwork in the game --- although the license file does not explicitly release them under the GPL it can be argued under 'good faith' that they are under the GPL?Rman Virgil wrote: * "Bandwidth"...... that's why he didn't inc the FMVs & because he knew many of us already had them so it would be no prob for us to distro it both ways.
If not then it might be worth sending off an e-mail to EDIOS's legal dept, not sure how far it will go, but worth a try nether the less.
The proprietary .dll issue goes away *completely* if we are allowed to redistribute/modify the FMVs as we can re-encode them into something like OGG Theora (patent free) so the dll can rot in Davy Jones' locker.
Thanks for clearing that up RV
Regards, Freddie.