Warzone 2100 Forums

what about limiting the number of derricks to 4 for each fully built power stations?

@ Cyp: True. We could've, say, slapped a price on Oil Derricks, or allowed trucks to demolish incomplete oil derricks, in addition to reducing burn times proportionally.

Although the change was implemented, it will need some testing in order to determine if something else needs to be done in order to fix the problem of partially-built derricks. If it turns out that we do need to decide on a new change to implement, then I'd probably want to create a new thread, with a new poll, for discussing and voting on that, so, if you want, this thread here can be locked. I've already shut down the polls for now.

speaking of testing these changes just how many beta releases will there be before there is a final?

Who knows?

zany, between 1 and ∞.
I would guess that we will end up around beta10.

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote:Although the change was implemented, it will need some testing in order to determine if something else needs to be done in order to fix the problem of partially-built derricks. If it turns out that we do need to decide on a new change to implement, then I'd probably want to create a new thread, with a new poll, for discussing and voting on that, so, if you want, this thread here can be locked. I've already shut down the polls for now.

We'll just have to play and see how the change feels now as opposed to how it felt when it had full burn time. Building incomplete derricks right in the heart of the enemy base is one of the favorite moves of some pros on the popular TokenRing map. We'll probably be playing this map a lot in the coming days.

You're welcome to join us if you like.

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote: Although the change was implemented, it will need some testing in order to determine if something else needs to be done in order to fix the problem of partially-built derricks. If it turns out that we do need to decide on a new change to implement, then I'd probably want to create a new thread, with a new poll, for discussing and voting on that, so, if you want, this thread here can be locked. I've already shut down the polls for now.

Shadow: Don't get me wrong, I like what you are trying to do for the community and game, and I know your heart is in the right place, but I think that further tampering with derricks would be very detrimental to the game. The polls have shown that people don't like further changes. Half building an oil derrick is just strategy. As Wisler said, the devs are fixing bugs which actually make the game more interesting. Please, drop this issue. I've played beta 5 and I think that the change is just fine, so long as no other changes are made.

-Subsentient

Maybe we need a system for testing out new balance changes...

So, just as we have master snapshots and betas and full releases currently, have a "Balance Experiment" release in which some area of balance is changed and people are invited to play it and tell us what they think ...without conducting any polls or telling them what has been changed.

That way, people aren't making presumptions about how the game will be affected, they have to just play it and see what's different then let us know if they like it...

The balance experiment releases will be clearly marked as "we've changed something, we're not telling you what, if the majority of people testing this release like it we'll incorporate it in to the game".

There would be no more than 6 of these per year, we don't want to overload testers, and we want to have each experiment run for at least a month.

What do you think?

@aubergine it impossible to play game when you dont know that was changed
half-build derricks is not balance change, its gameplay

in each balance change topic we can find or we will find 1 or 2 disagreed person

@aubergine: This was done with targeting some time ago. These days it's not hard those who wish to figure it out in a technical sense.

IMO, this should be done by releasing mods/map-mods.

aubergine wrote: The balance experiment releases will be clearly marked as "we've changed something, we're not telling you what, if the majority of people testing this release like it we'll incorporate it in to the game".

There would be no more than 6 of these per year, we don't want to overload testers, and we want to have each experiment run for at least a month.

What do you think?

I did that for NRS, mostly posting the changelog after a couple of games.

But, you must be aware, I made balance changes around v54 (dec. 15) that slowly changed the habit of the players. The last change I made to correct that was in v100. So we got 3 months and 46 versions needed to see the habit changing and correcting it properly (is still have too much borg rushers in my mod, but they now lose more often than they win...)

That would never work if we do polls and huge discussion of 1 month between each little change. We need someone or a small group with the skills and the capacity to make such change in a boring mod. We need the capacity to promise them that the final result will be used. Per told me that my last balance proposition would be at least tested correctly, but he lied. It never made it into the game, but still players found a way to complain about it...

Iluvalar wrote:Per told me that my last balance proposition would be at least tested correctly, but he lied. It never made it into the game

I said no such thing. I don't even know what "tested correctly" means.

Iluvalar wrote:....
It never made it into the game, but still players found a way to complain about it...

I insist these things should be promoted with a mod either in the Showcase or Development forum.

yeah, I recall I asked you if I could have the chance to have it tested in a release if I made that cherry-pick balance. Obviously, I spent my time to make it. So you must have told me something reassuring about that...

But you just made me waste my time, it never made it trough a single release...

effigy wrote:

Iluvalar wrote:....
It never made it into the game, but still players found a way to complain about it...

I insist these things should be promoted with a mod either in the Showcase or Development forum.

So ? How was mine ? You probably hosted a dozen of time now with plenty of players I guess...