[Campaign 4] Release & Development topic

[Rman Virgil]

There's another alternative that I've just thought of that would tie up all of this very nicely ...

What if, instead of "destroy", the objective of the Onslaught is "assimilate" the player forces -- and the Rescue Team actually has a clear-cut purpose?

Let's say that the Coalition fixes their equipment just as NEXUS uses the Synaptic Link and Synaptic Override technology upon the unprepared player forces. After all, that's what happened to the Red Alphas. The Coalition forces have a countermeasure, but can't deploy it. So, they contact the Project HQ (now that they are able to) and let them know what happened -- that NEXUS is in Alaska, and Teams One and Two put up a good fight but suffered the same fate as the Collective and the Red Alphas -- and to please send help. Since the AA Lasers that brought down Transports One and Two have been destroyed, the flight corridor is clear.

Now the Rescue Team has a purpose -- and most of the information they need to proceed without suffering the same fate as Gibbs, Wilkes and the others. The mission will now become one of "retrieval" -- namely, rescuing Gibbs, Wilkes and the others.

What do you think, Rman?

I like.

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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I knew you would. It fulfills all of the stuff we like best -- stealing from NEXUS, giving him the proverbial middle finger, and a VERY interesting story to boot.

Think we've got a winner here. Plus, it'll allow me to use quite a bit of the southeast part of the map that currently wasn't being used for anything.

[Rman Virgil]

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Just finished writing this and it may have been rendered inappropriate with your last proposal but I'm gonna post it anyway ' cause it could, perhaps, have application somewhere else.

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c) With information in hand (and a nice quiet sector to set up Delta Base), the player can then prepare for whatever needs to happen without interference (and we can send the player to M4's area to begin operations there)

~ My first thought: a turtle paradise. Nothin' inherently wrong with that. In fact, many that favor CAM mode have a fondness for the opportunity. With all the frenetic action leading up to it, this change of pace would be welcome and fitting balance dramatically.

~ My second thought: if the Player is not being challenged for a spell by NEXUS assaults, then other decision making challenges must present themselves to the Player because even a turtle paradise cakewalk can become boring and even pose balance issues for missions to follow.

~ Which leads to this question: What sorta non-combat challenges can the player be compelled to confront during this lull from fighting ?

* Well I can think of a matrix comprised of 4 constraining factors to a turtle cakewalk (how's that for a mixed metaphor ).

1.) Time allowed in the turtle paradise phase.

2.) Amount of oil resources available.

3.) Geographic / Mapping challenges taking their lead from the aforementioned begining of the last sequence of missions in the original CAM ('cept this time do it on High Ground) and also making use of a technique employed in the "Citadel Elite" mod from '99 (super popular for many years with players & also had key components incorporated in other mods like v. 1.12 patch & NTW Mod) which no mappers since have incorporated its specific mapping innovation of the "Citadel" itself in their designs.... which leaves it as fresh as when first conceived in Nov. of '99. But this suggestion deserves its own Map Design discussion, I think, so I won't get into anymore details right now.

4.) The synergetic integration of #1 thru #3.

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[Rman Virgil]

I knew you would. It fulfills all of the stuff we like best -- stealing from NEXUS, giving him the proverbial middle finger, and a VERY interesting story to boot.

Think we've got a winner here. Plus, it'll allow me to use quite a bit of the southeast part of the map that currently wasn't being used for anything.

A winner, indeed.

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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Niiiiice.

There's nothing saying that we have to stay on M1's map, either. In fact, since the whole purpose of the Rescue Team is to "lay low" and otherwise avoid detection until the time is right to execute the Retrival Mission, that would work in our favor. The "Turtle Paradise" mission (when we first arrive) will absolutely need to have constraints -- time limit, yes. Patrolling NEXUS forces, definitely. This will need to test the player's ability to evade and make decisions without fighting. And all in a way that isn't fatiguing or boring.

It's an interesting challenge, from a design point of view.

I'm also toying with the idea that NEXUS levels the zone -- other than his own stuff, of course. The Red Alphas are not much more than playthings to him. The Coalition is "a stone in his shoe" (Godfather fans will recognize that reference). Gibbs, Wilkes, and the Commander? They are trophies. Something to show off and brag about. By leveling the zone, NEXUS fulfills his need to dominate and control -- and will give US a fresh canvas to build from.

Plus, if the zone is leveled, there's nothing that could possibly threaten him ....

[Rman Virgil]

Niiiiice.

There's nothing saying that we have to stay on M1's map, either. In fact, since the whole purpose of the Rescue Team is to "lay low" and otherwise avoid detection until the time is right to execute the Retrival Mission, that would work in our favor. The "Turtle Paradise" mission (when we first arrive) will absolutely need to have constraints -- time limit, yes. Patrolling NEXUS forces, definitely. This will need to test the player's ability to evade and make decisions without fighting. And all in a way that isn't fatiguing or boring.

It's an interesting challenge, from a design point of view.

I'm also toying with the idea that NEXUS levels the zone -- other than his own stuff, of course. The Red Alphas are not much more than playthings to him. The Coalition is "a stone in his shoe" (Godfather fans will recognize that reference). Gibbs, Wilkes, and the Commander? They are trophies. Something to show off and brag about. By leveling the zone, NEXUS fulfills his need to dominate and control -- and will give US a fresh canvas to build from.

Plus, if the zone is leveled, there's nothing that could possibly threaten him ....

I missed that very cool non-combat choice.... strategically evading enemy detection. Excellent.

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One last variant twist for today. Promise.

Not something Pumpkin used.

Briefly, something along these lines...

You start off with the mission directive to quietly set-up camp and remain undetected.... some time after, you are relayed an imperative to scout unexpected enemy activity on a sector of map that could potentially be a NEXUS Second Front (with your encampment representing the known First Front).

You are given control of this Coalition Scout Force far away from your encampment (but same map) while still controlling your Project Camp Forces.

The gist of this challenge is the player running to 2 OPs simultaneously that require evasive tacs.

Signing out for today.
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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I think I have just the thing to make it really interesting ...

During the "Revenge" sub-mission where the player takes out the AA Lasers Base that brought down the Transports, the player stumbles across some technology (ECM Towers) that are quite desirable. It's not a stretch to find that the Coalition indeed has a sample of that technology but is unable to do anything with it. Perhaps the Project could make use of it ...

[Rman Virgil]

I think I have just the thing to make it really interesting ...

During the "Revenge" sub-mission where the player takes out the AA Lasers Base that brought down the Transports, the player stumbles across some technology (ECM Towers) that are quite desirable. It's not a stretch to find that the Coalition indeed has a sample of that technology but is unable to do anything with it. Perhaps the Project could make use of it ...

Yup.... a good fit for the proposed evade detection scenario.

Do think at some stage challenging the Player to deal with 2 centers of gravity simultaneously is worth a mull. It could be 2 real fronts or one real and the other a ruse by NEXUS. The later would be particularly interesting and not something attempted by Pumpkin. When has the a.i. ever attempted a strategic feint ?

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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Ohhh, the possibilities ....

Thanks Rman. You always give me new and interesting things to think about.

[Rman Virgil]

Ohhh, the possibilities ....

Thanks Rman. You always give me new and interesting things to think about.

Ditto as in mutual benefit. Our discussions here also help me move forward in my projects as in these expressed goals:

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A brief overview of where I'm going with all this.

2028 - 2084: The novel's time frame. With my habit of many drafts, a 2 year project in all likely hood. I'll not be posting excerpts or early drafts..... however....

2085 - 2107: Within this time frame I will continue to write short stories. I will post ones that are no more than 4 pages or about 1500 words.

There will be one major goal difference from my previous stories written and posted. In some of these new stories I wanna try and convey, vividly, the alternate game play possible with the introduction of particular new techs, and conditions, that the expanded time line has introduced.

Of late, the expanded timeline has also inspired new map ideas I'm tempted to execute if I can effectively manage my time. As for the mods I see of keen interest to me, they are not in the cards to execute for at least a year from now.

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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Okay, so here's the current working plan:

- Will script in the new chain of events @ set out above. The player, upon losing the "Onslaught Event", will see the forces captured and assimilated. The Rescue Team arrives via two Transports, as the offending AA Base that brought down Transports One and Two has been rendered null.

- The Coalition forces in the area contact the Player forces as they are arriving to apprise them of the situation, as well as direct the player to where the ECM and Synaptic Override Countermeasure technologies can be found (yes, we'll make this part of the Campaign an artifact hunt ).

- The player will quietly set up Delta Base, evading the NEXUS Patrols and other scattered forces loyal to NEXUS.

- The player eventually will be in a position to storm the NEXUS Base where the now-captured and assimilated Player forces from M1 have been deployed.

- NEXUS will launch a two-pronged counterattack that relies on misdirection against the player and Coalition forces.

- The Player and Coalition forces will then launch an attack against the "false" NEXUS Prime base in this zone. Victory will be difficult and not guaranteed.

- The End sequence will carry us over into M12's area for the next phase of the Campaign.

I wonder if the 'Divergent Paths" are still appropriate or not. While I truly love the idea of "make your own story", I wonder if it takes away from the actual story we're trying to tell. I imagine that the Pumpkins had this discussion as well -- it was certainly within their power and skill-set to thread multiple stories into a campaign like we have. Any thoughts?

[Lord Apocalypse]

Usually a choose your own adventure setting ends about the same no matter how you run with it. There are slight variations to it but all boils down to you win! In some cases you win big or go home empty handed but alive.

My plans were to have the major plot lines reemerge from divergent paths at various points. The first being the mission to grab the syn link artifact before NP left the area. Failure would take you on several varied missions into different locations until you could research several techs that would bring you up to speed on syn link. I will have to find my notes to see where it picks up at or whatever else I had decided on.

[Rman Virgil]

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Well, I look at it from these simultaneous vantages: first and foremost, create a compelling heroic story driven by reversals of fortune that is then seamlessly melded to the greatest variety of combat challenges the player is called upon to face within which they can choose from the broadest set of historic military strats and tacs to deploy for the win.

Within that matrix, "create your story" and "create your combat experience" are distinguished so that we can see clearly that the "create your combat experience" becomes the players own story experience created within the rich story world structured by the CAM designer.

If you design the missions to afford the "greatest variety of combat challenges the player is called upon to face within which they can choose from the broadest set of historic military strats and tacs to deploy for the win" then the player will effectively have the opportunity to "create their own combat experience" which will in turn become their very own story experience taking place along side, and within, the compelling heroic story arc (driven by reversals of fortune) that you, the designer / storyteller, created and which the player does not alter with their decisions save for the winning or losing end scenario outcome.

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[Lord Apocalypse]

What is the latest release? 17 or 18?

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

@ LA: Release-18 is the current dev version -- not released yet due to the ongoing troubles I've encountered with Research not enabling being the primary reason. Meant to have it out a month ago.

@Rman: That was the goal -- eventually lead each story hub to the same conclusions. Still is, to be honest.

The script is getting very large, larger than even the Pumpkins would have liked. The underlying structure of a Campaign is just as important as the part that the player experiences. The JS API is meant to alleviate that, and will when I get things ported over to 3.2 (where the API is broad and mature enough to do everything I need it to). In fact, I believe that I have an opportunity to implement some things when I do the conversion to 3.2 that will REALLY knock some socks off from a technical standpoint. The immediate issue is that there are no fresh builds on the Master branch (3.2) newer than Aug 1 that I've been able to see.

We'll get there, guys.