Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Hey, guys.
Currently, units with more experience are supposed to have higher speed. Of course, this speed is applied before the speed cap, so any unit already going at a propulsion's max speed (125, 150, 175, 300, 700, for Tracks through VTOL), which is going to be most units, isn' t going to benefit from it. So instead, I propose for the experience bonus to be applied after the max speed cap.
Thoughts?
Currently, units with more experience are supposed to have higher speed. Of course, this speed is applied before the speed cap, so any unit already going at a propulsion's max speed (125, 150, 175, 300, 700, for Tracks through VTOL), which is going to be most units, isn' t going to benefit from it. So instead, I propose for the experience bonus to be applied after the max speed cap.
Thoughts?
- lav_coyote25
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Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
the more experience you have in real life - the better your reflexes and cognition. go faster would be just one of many attributes that would benefit.
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Sooo... are you saying that this will make the speed of the vechiles go over the limit?
I also suggest giving them more dammage/hitpoints/range... Benefits of having way more experienced units
I also suggest giving them more dammage/hitpoints/range... Benefits of having way more experienced units
Your attacks upon us will not go unpunished. You are in contravention of the New Paradigm. Message ends.
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
It has been the best part of a year since I have worked on the code, but if I recall:Asterisk wrote:Sooo... are you saying that this will make the speed of the vechiles go over the limit?
I also suggest giving them more dammage/hitpoints/range... Benefits of having way more experienced units
Experience makes units harder to hit (6% less accuracy for attackers per experience level); take less damage (5% less per experience level) and a minor speed boost. The values may not be exact, however.
Regards, Freddie.
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
It has been about four days since I read through that part of the code. You forgot that it increases unit accuracy for your own units.
http://guide.wz2100.net/experience
http://guide.wz2100.net/experience
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Correlating maximum velocity with number of kills is an arbitrary and unrealistic; it will not affect single-player campaign, only in which non-superficial amounts of experienced can be accumulated.
Warzone's MP is incomparable to the campaign:
No timelimit
->Turtling is an effective strategy, in conjunction with the resource and research system
No requirement to acquire artifacts
->No conflicts for specific research paths
No limited unit RTT segments
->Current experience benefits are noticeable in away missions, while no reasonable amount of buffs will ever make individual units noteworthy in MP
Unit turnover rate is significantly greater than campaign
->The unit will be destroyed before an appreciable number of kills are achieved
Different balancing
->Current GPMs is based on symmetrical warfare, whereas the campaign is either advancing through inferior opposition within a timelimit or outmanoeuvring an opposition possessing superior tech.
If such were to be implemented, it would only decrease the importance of high power/mass designs, perhaps if instead experienced unit AI were to prioritize targets better, or perform complicated manoeuvres such as power-sliding around corners for wheeled vehicles, or Immelmann turn for VTOLs
Warzone's MP is incomparable to the campaign:
No timelimit
->Turtling is an effective strategy, in conjunction with the resource and research system
No requirement to acquire artifacts
->No conflicts for specific research paths
No limited unit RTT segments
->Current experience benefits are noticeable in away missions, while no reasonable amount of buffs will ever make individual units noteworthy in MP
Unit turnover rate is significantly greater than campaign
->The unit will be destroyed before an appreciable number of kills are achieved
Different balancing
->Current GPMs is based on symmetrical warfare, whereas the campaign is either advancing through inferior opposition within a timelimit or outmanoeuvring an opposition possessing superior tech.
If such were to be implemented, it would only decrease the importance of high power/mass designs, perhaps if instead experienced unit AI were to prioritize targets better, or perform complicated manoeuvres such as power-sliding around corners for wheeled vehicles, or Immelmann turn for VTOLs
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
for this you should try the 'retreat at medium damage' feature, and in conjunction with a commander, it will return to the commander after repairTVR wrote: Unit turnover rate is significantly greater than campaign
->The unit will be destroyed before an appreciable number of kills are achieved
regards
elio
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Why? It makes some amount of sense that higher experience means better at maneuvering, which can be abstracted away as speed.TVR wrote:Correlating maximum velocity with number of kills is an arbitrary and unrealistic; it will not affect single-player campaign, only in which non-superficial amounts of experienced can be accumulated.
First of all, that's not what this thread is about. There is already an experience modifier to speed. This thread is about making the experience modifier to speed more consistent.
Second, why won't it affect singleplayer campaign? Do you mean that it will only affect singleplayer campaign? If so, that's really what it's meant to. It's more of a minor bonus in multiplayer.
Yes, yes, we know. That's hardly some big secret.TVR wrote:Warzone's MP is incomparable to the campaign
Hmm, we can't do that, but we can give more experienced units faster rotation speed, and thus better maneuverability. That could work.TVR wrote:If such were to be implemented, it would only decrease the importance of high power/mass designs, perhaps if instead experienced unit AI were to prioritize targets better, or perform complicated manoeuvres such as power-sliding around corners for wheeled vehicles, or Immelmann turn for VTOLs
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Changes such as this effect both single and multi-player games. Amazingly they use the same unit/projectile/structure code as each other.
The base statistics, however, are different between the two. (So MP balance changes do not effect SP.)
Regards, Freddie.
The base statistics, however, are different between the two. (So MP balance changes do not effect SP.)
Regards, Freddie.
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
Linear max velocity, not manoeuvrability -> High-speed droids can still be stuck when moving in opposite directionsZarel wrote:... higher experience ... can be abstracted away as speed. ...
This thread is for softening the hard cap on propulsion max speed, which lessens the significance of proper designs.Zarel wrote:... This thread is about making the experience modifier to speed more consistent. ...
I believed the WRP wouldn't change any gameplay aspects of singleplayer campaign, that was inaccurate.Zarel wrote:... why won't it affect singleplayer campaign? ...
Effective multiplayer strategies are distinct from effective singleplayer strategies; recycling units in order to transfer experience does not work well, either that unit will spend it's entirety in the base being constantly recycled, or experienced units used for combat will be stuck somewhere while retreating [Murphy's Law], and be picked off by new enemy tech on fresh units.elio wrote:... for this you should try the 'retreat at medium damage' feature, and in conjunction with a commander, it will return to the commander after repair ...
- whippersnapper
- Regular
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- Joined: 21 Feb 2007, 15:46
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
.
For me the following strikes to the heart of what is at stake here... admittedly a wee bit outside the present box.
In a ballistic system where hit/miss is completely eliminated, and a bullet simply "goes where it goes and hits what it hits" (non-homeing or not what is known as a PGM - Precision Guided Munition) then unit speed and manueverability would play a large part in combat as it does in real life. An inexperienced crew might just remain stationary, or move very slowly just so that they could get a steady shot off, while an experienced crew would be in constant motion, swerving left and right so they'd be harder to aim at, thus increasing their survivability signifigantly.
Tank warfare has never been about getting 20 tanks in a group and sitting there taking potshots - realistically 5 tanks that were moving around constantly while the opposing 20 were stationary would almost always win the fight (an example of .symmetric force.vs asymmetric force).
This brings us back to smart maneuver (like "Fire & Fade") vs simple linear advance AND .......... symmetric force.vs asymmetric force.
Here is a simply example of how experience should work without constant baby-sitting of individual units within a combat group. Your
fastest units with LOS weaps should be ranging in lateral motion at your front line, not stationary. Weaker units (health-wise) should fall behind stronger units,while still firing upon the enemy. Concentrating all your fire power on one enemy unit, ignoring the rest of the enemy's combat group is, well, not very smart for a Commander to do. Repair units should remain in the rear-guard, units needing repairs going to them and not the repair units going to the front line of enemy fire to become helpless sitting ducks. Etc...etc...
In essence a faster linear advance boon, by itself, makes no real difference during an engagement. Boon modifiers would work best,
make a real difference in higher level experienced combat, if directly linked to Unit (and Commander) A.I. advances as described. (I have
hopes that with Betawidget - LUA such will become practical.)
My 2 cents, whipper
.
For me the following strikes to the heart of what is at stake here... admittedly a wee bit outside the present box.
In a ballistic system where hit/miss is completely eliminated, and a bullet simply "goes where it goes and hits what it hits" (non-homeing or not what is known as a PGM - Precision Guided Munition) then unit speed and manueverability would play a large part in combat as it does in real life. An inexperienced crew might just remain stationary, or move very slowly just so that they could get a steady shot off, while an experienced crew would be in constant motion, swerving left and right so they'd be harder to aim at, thus increasing their survivability signifigantly.
Tank warfare has never been about getting 20 tanks in a group and sitting there taking potshots - realistically 5 tanks that were moving around constantly while the opposing 20 were stationary would almost always win the fight (an example of .symmetric force.vs asymmetric force).
This brings us back to smart maneuver (like "Fire & Fade") vs simple linear advance AND .......... symmetric force.vs asymmetric force.
Here is a simply example of how experience should work without constant baby-sitting of individual units within a combat group. Your
fastest units with LOS weaps should be ranging in lateral motion at your front line, not stationary. Weaker units (health-wise) should fall behind stronger units,while still firing upon the enemy. Concentrating all your fire power on one enemy unit, ignoring the rest of the enemy's combat group is, well, not very smart for a Commander to do. Repair units should remain in the rear-guard, units needing repairs going to them and not the repair units going to the front line of enemy fire to become helpless sitting ducks. Etc...etc...
In essence a faster linear advance boon, by itself, makes no real difference during an engagement. Boon modifiers would work best,
make a real difference in higher level experienced combat, if directly linked to Unit (and Commander) A.I. advances as described. (I have
hopes that with Betawidget - LUA such will become practical.)
My 2 cents, whipper
.
.
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction." Anthem
"Art is the selective recreation of reality according to the artist's metaphysical value judgments." A. Rand
.
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction." Anthem
"Art is the selective recreation of reality according to the artist's metaphysical value judgments." A. Rand
.
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
If we didn't change any of the gameplay aspects of campaign then we would be extremely limited with regards to what we could do. No smarter unit targeting, no realistic projectiles, no experience changes.TVR wrote:I believed the WRP wouldn't change any gameplay aspects of singleplayer campaign, that was inaccurate.
We do, however, try and keep the experience the same. So levels should not become excessively hard/easy as a result of the changes we make.
If you want nostalgia play 1.10.
Regards, Freddie.
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Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
is it my imagination but do Commanders work better when speed limiting is off
ive been comparing the 2, speed limiting on and off
and it seems when its on units ignore the commander
when its off the game seems to work better
ive been comparing the 2, speed limiting on and off
and it seems when its on units ignore the commander
when its off the game seems to work better
Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
I personally think the whole speed limit concept is unrealistic and counterproductive. For example, I design an Inferno Python Hover. Not a bad unit. Just one problem. I have a bunch of useless bodies. An Inferno Mantis Hover goes 200 speed just like the Python, even though the Mantis is lighter and has the same engine output. In real life, a light car and a heavy car with the same engine don't go the same speed. Speed is not limited by propulsion!! Removing the speed limit will not only make the game more realistic, but give uses to the NP bodies and some other underused bodies. (Plus it gets rid of arguments about how to apply experience speed bonuses.)
- Deathguise
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Re: Experience speed modifier after max speed limit?
The propulsion speed limit could easily be removed with a mod.zoid wrote:I personally think the whole speed limit concept is unrealistic and counterproductive. For example, I design an Inferno Python Hover. Not a bad unit. Just one problem. I have a bunch of useless bodies. An Inferno Mantis Hover goes 200 speed just like the Python, even though the Mantis is lighter and has the same engine output. In real life, a light car and a heavy car with the same engine don't go the same speed. Speed is not limited by propulsion!! Removing the speed limit will not only make the game more realistic, but give uses to the NP bodies and some other underused bodies. (Plus it gets rid of arguments about how to apply experience speed bonuses.)
I voted for the experience bonus to be applied after the max speed cap, purely bacuse it is more consistent, however i am not sure i agree with the +5% speed boost per experience level combined with being applied after the max speed cap.