Multi turret how-to

[TheDaze]

Call me stupid, but I read about folks who seen multiple turret in action (in v.2.1), however, I fail to see how does one get that. I tried playing the skirmish, developing techs and large bodies, staring intensely at the design menu, to no avail. So for those of us who dare not ask (me excluded, obviously), a quick push in the right direction would be nice. Denk U!

[hessuu]

You have to choose body, propulsion type and primary weapon first. Then the secondary weapon button should appear.

EDIT: If I remember right multi turrets work only in the skirmish mode, not in campaing.

[TheDaze]

Tricky. However, I wonder why the secondary weapon button isn't displayed all the time, for bodies that can accomodate it. Note to developers, I guess.

[doom3r]

It looks like some body wasnt allowed to have a secondary turret, like Project's Phyton - Try using a better one to use multiple turrets 

[Deus Siddis]

Tricky. However, I wonder why the secondary weapon button isn't displayed all the time, for bodies that can accomodate it. Note to developers, I guess.

But think about how that would look graphically if the secondary turret was supposed to be mounted on top of the primary turret like on a modern battle tank and you placed a secondary turret without first adding a primary one- the weapon would be floating in mid-air above your vehicle.

[Buginator]

All the models would have to be redone to support this to look good.  Right now, you can make some very crappy looking things.

As soon as someone wants to make new units...

[TheDaze]

But think about how that would look graphically if the secondary turret was supposed to be mounted on top of the primary turret like on a modern battle tank and you placed a secondary turret without first adding a primary one- the weapon would be floating in mid-air above your vehicle.

That may be done in modern tanks but in wz this is the least you have to worry about. Because in order to have this problem you would first have to redesign all the turrets. Imagine having a heavy cannon on top of an archangel missile battery...

So, that is not really a concern since the developer controls both the build menu and body models and makes sure that such designs do not make it into the game. Therefore, all turrets have to be on plausible mounting points. The real concern is that a primary turret (which determines the vehicle type) is mandatory while the secondary is not. However, I don't believe hiding the secondary turret button is a good solution. It might be a good temporary one, but that's for the devs to say.

[doom3r]

Secondary turrets should have a completely different design than primary turrets. Smaller and flatter maybe, like in a modern tank.
And i think you should be able to put two large weapons in the same body. I suggest to put heavy weapons as secondary only on super heavy bodies, and maybe on Nexus' large body.

[Deus Siddis]

Imagine having a heavy cannon on top of an archangel missile battery...

But then imagine the missile and cannon batteries being placed horizontally (front and back or side by side) relative to each other-- at many angles one will be shooting though the other!

All the models would have to be redone to support this to look good.  Right now, you can make some very crappy looking things. As soon as someone wants to make new units...

I could make these models in blender, though I'm not sure if they too would look crappy when and if they were successfully converted to PIEs and displayed in a decade old graphics engine with seemingly no light source (?) or smooth shading.

But either way with plural turrets, if they are not stacked one on top of another, you would need to limit their rotation ranges so that they do not shoot through each other, which also looks very crappy. But that will have a big complicating effect on gameplay- not only will one turret, with possible a different kind of weapon from the other, not be able to fire in a range of directions, but it might also have to turn 270 degrees in some cases vs just 90 degrees, to avoid the other turret.

Mounting more than one weapon system on a single turret might be a way of getting around these issues. It seems to be a much more modern trend as well, compare the tanks of WWI to all those that saw battle afterwards. Like the modern Bradley AFV/APC- one turret with one autocannon and one anti-tank missile launcher.

[Rman Virgil]

----->

* Kept thinking someone would bring this up...

* It might be helpful to actually know were this is derived from in RL Military (engineering & GFX wise).

* It is completely out of early WW II & specifically 2 Russian tanks.

* The Steel Fortress T28 & the Land Battleship T35.

* The "T-28" had 3 independent turrets and the "T-35" had 5 turrets !!!!

* You can read about 'em &, more importantly, see some pics HERE

* I was gonna express my POV vis-a-vis WZ but decided to just leave at this bit of info.

- Regards, RV

[Buginator]

I also wonder about the 'size' of the units.  Right now, they are all pretty much even.
If (when?) we get into things like battleships or something else that is really big, we are going to need models that are 3-4x time as big.
Would be nice to see something like the 'Mighty Mo' in warzone.   Just think of how many turrets you can stick on that.
Of course, by the time you build it, you most likely would have nothing left, since the 'cost' of the Mighty Mo was too great...

[Rman Virgil]

I also wonder about the 'size' of the units.  Right now, they are all pretty much even.
If (when?) we get into things like battleships or something else that is really big, we are going to need models that are 3-4x time as big.
Would be nice to see something like the 'Mighty Mo' in warzone.   Just think of how many turrets you can stick on that.
.......

* All valid points which also lead directly to another central issue  esp if you wanna take WZ to true Naval Units & a watery theater of operations that can actually accommodate such conflict types.

* You have to effectively DOUBLE the current map limit, at least. Not so much a factor in CAM Mode (though the possibilities it opens up for Mission "Branching" techniques based on cartography are awesome) but an absolute must to even entertain just a 4-player Naval MP Map....

- RV

[psychopompos]

Would be nice to see something like the 'Mighty Mo' in warzone.  

you mean the german maus 2?

isnt the firing ark limited on vtols?
couldnt that code be adapted for use on multi-turret units?

[Rman Virgil]

you mean the german maus 2?

* I'm sure Bug meant the USS Missouri - one the most magnificent battleships of WW 2.

* See HERE

* EDIT: BTW.... a case can easily be made that the "Maus 2" was the most ill-concieved military piece of equipment in the entire WW 2 era.

* Actually only 2 were ever built and neither had armaments added. At 207 tons it would have been more sitting-duck than fearsome tank.

* I must say I do like the sense of humor behind calling this behemoth a "mouse".

- RV

[Buginator]

you mean the german maus 2?

isnt the firing ark limited on vtols?
couldnt that code be adapted for use on multi-turret units?

As Rman pointed out, I was talking about the USS Missouri.  I should have been a bit clearer.

For the firing ark, I never really looked at the code, so couldn't tell you.
I think Watermelon was the main one modifying these things, so he would know.

Also, if anyone has played TA before,  would be nice if we had a Krogoth type unit--though it would be even nicer if they released THAT game as open source.  Can you imagine the possibilities with combining the best of both of them? 

And before you say it, I know there is TA-Spring, but that isn't the same.