Commanders: Original Vision, Crippled Default, Future ?
- Stratadrake
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Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
Not quite what I meant. I meant that VTOLs could have some manner of a line-of-sight check too, but the effect wouldn't be as pronounced as with ground units since VTOLs get a birds-eye view of their targets.
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
Yup, that makes sense. Will the extra LOS checking not cause game lag?
"Dedicated to discovering Warzone artefacts, and sharing them freely for the benefit of the community."
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- Stratadrake
- Trained
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- Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 09:43
- Location: Pacific NW
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Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
...the $100,000 question. Anyone got a lifeline?
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
I do believe the LOS fonction for 3.1 is exactly "tip of weapon -to- middle" already. And it's good for any structure or unit shooting any structure or unit.
It's the exagerately realistic "tip of weapon" part that cause assymetrical problems right now.
It's the exagerately realistic "tip of weapon" part that cause assymetrical problems right now.
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
It just jumped in my face... there is another factor we forgot : the perfect army size.
What is that ? Well, when we invest in the army, each new unit add it's own strenght to the total. While when you research it's a very small boost that is spread every units that are already in the battle. As the army grow there is a sweat spot where the value of the army meet the research progression. That's the perfect army size.
In the standard games, that size grow along the time because the research gives less with the time passing while in NRS it's stable.
Because it's very hard to deal with commander and non-commanded armies at the same time, this mean that the price of the commander and his units must be proportionnal to the perfect army size...
What is that ? Well, when we invest in the army, each new unit add it's own strenght to the total. While when you research it's a very small boost that is spread every units that are already in the battle. As the army grow there is a sweat spot where the value of the army meet the research progression. That's the perfect army size.
In the standard games, that size grow along the time because the research gives less with the time passing while in NRS it's stable.
Because it's very hard to deal with commander and non-commanded armies at the same time, this mean that the price of the commander and his units must be proportionnal to the perfect army size...
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
- Rman Virgil
- Professional
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- Joined: 25 Sep 2006, 01:06
- Location: USA
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
Very insightful. In all these years thinking about commanders this never crossed my mind. I just blindly accepted the Pumpkin GPM correlation between kills-rank-army size as the absolute baseline.Iluvalar wrote:It just jumped in my face... there is another factor we forgot : the perfect army size.
What is that ? Well, when we invest in the army, each new unit add it's own strenght to the total. While when you research it's a very small boost that is spread every units that are already in the battle. As the army grow there is a sweat spot where the value of the army meet the research progression. That's the perfect army size.
In the standard games, that size grow along the time because the research gives less with the time passing while in NRS it's stable.
Because it's very hard to deal with commander and non-commanded armies at the same time, this mean that the price of the commander and his units must be proportionnal to the perfect army size...
Truth be told I wouldn't even know where to begin to figure out the perfect army size utilizing your insight.
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Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
We dont think about that because on short term we are guided by the increase of global units. One unit is infinitely better than none. We end up dosing the production of units and the agressivity we rarely consider the size of the whole army. But it is the mechanism that impose to everyone the number of units in the map.
I can help you to figure this out.
First you need the figure count function : Fig(x)=(x²+x)/2
This will allow you to calculate that 4 units worth 10 units in a row and 5 units worth 15 units in a row. With that you can figure out that your 5th unit will increase your total strenght by 50% (assuming you group them together) with that and the cost of that unit in mind you can compare with the price and the gain of a given research.
(((x+1)²+(x+1))/2(x²+x)/2)-1/cost_unit=res_gain/cost_res
Where x is the ideal number of unit.
Assuming the game is balanced, the cost of the total army should be steady whatever the design choice you made.
I can help you to figure this out.
First you need the figure count function : Fig(x)=(x²+x)/2
This will allow you to calculate that 4 units worth 10 units in a row and 5 units worth 15 units in a row. With that you can figure out that your 5th unit will increase your total strenght by 50% (assuming you group them together) with that and the cost of that unit in mind you can compare with the price and the gain of a given research.
(((x+1)²+(x+1))/2(x²+x)/2)-1/cost_unit=res_gain/cost_res
Where x is the ideal number of unit.
Assuming the game is balanced, the cost of the total army should be steady whatever the design choice you made.
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
- Rman Virgil
- Professional
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- Joined: 25 Sep 2006, 01:06
- Location: USA
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
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Mon ami! I haven't used that part of my brain for an eternity. It hurts. :O_o
Take me a bit to clear the cob webs away. Thanks for pointing the way to a clearer understanding.
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Mon ami! I haven't used that part of my brain for an eternity. It hurts. :O_o
Take me a bit to clear the cob webs away. Thanks for pointing the way to a clearer understanding.
.
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
Up !!
I'm really considering using commanders in my default strategy in NRS now... Just like I use the repair factory most of the time. They are totally functionnal in there...
I'm really considering using commanders in my default strategy in NRS now... Just like I use the repair factory most of the time. They are totally functionnal in there...
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
- Rman Virgil
- Professional
- Posts: 3812
- Joined: 25 Sep 2006, 01:06
- Location: USA
Re: Commander Dev Continues - Still No MP Testing Support
That sounds very promising. I will have to check it out. Makes me hopefull, in a tangible way, that someday WZ will have a place among the elite RTSs. A place aknowledged outside of this community, in the greater RTS world that is. I do believe fully developed Commander GPMs has the power to attain that end. I see nothing else being a vehicle to that end. Other developments can contribute to that end but only fully deved Commanders can take it over the hump and across that particular finish line, IMHO, natch.Iluvalar wrote:Up !!
I'm really considering using commanders in my default strategy in NRS now... Just like I use the repair factory most of the time. They are totally functionnal in there...
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
Contrast
Reach
Exposure
Articulation
Trust
Echo
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)
Contrast
Reach
Exposure
Articulation
Trust
Echo
.