How we might achieve all tilesets at once ..

[Jorzi]

I think it would be a good idea to allow per-map tilesets that allow advanced users to specify a larger tileset or a custom one. For basic users, having a restricted tileset can, paradoxically, be a creativity boost.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Right and right. Now all that needs to happen is to get FlaME to load up the single "Superset" so maps can be made with all tiles at once. I'll give that a try on my end and report what I find.

[NoQ]

Something that i wasn't yet able to achieve is to tell the renderer to render non-native cliffs as cliffs (more aggressively, forcing all unpassable terrain to be cliffy rather than randomly competing with non-cliff tiles), so they are a bit thin. Any idea where this sort of behaviour is coded?

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

FlaME won't load any tiles past number 95, and I can't find where to change that. There was some stuff about the number of tiles to the set being stored in the .ttp file, but it's encoded and I can't change that either without corrupting the file. I'll have to get Flail to change it, if he's willing, to something that can be edited.

Aside from that, I've got the superset made. We'll treat all maps as tertilesc1-hw. I *do* know that the tile types is what makes cliffs unpassable - so that would take care of the problem you've run into NoQ.

[NoQ]

so that would take care of the problem you've run into NoQ

I don't see how yet. The urban cliff on that map has its tile type set to "Cliff", it is actually unpassable, and it is even one of the tile numbers (no. 45 and 46, while arizona cliffs are painted with tiles no. 71 and 75) that is actually a cliff in arizona. But it is not regarded as a cliff by the renderer anyway.

There was some stuff about the number of tiles to the set being stored in the .ttp file, but it's encoded and I can't change that either without corrupting the file.

You can export tile type files from FlaME. You just reassign tile types on the texture tab and then go File->Save->Export Tile Types.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Yep, that's how I got the new ttp file in the first place. The encoding prevents me from doing anything manually. FlaME won't load anything past tile-95.

The other problem you've run into is also something that will have to be studied more, I think.

[NoQ]

Just made some map with mixed textures. I didn't solve the cliff problem yet, but they suddenly don't look too bad in this particular case.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

And as expected it looks friggin GREAT.

Now to solve the cliffs problem.

[NoQ]

Slightly offtopic, but i just had an idea (which is already implemented partially in 6c-Mirage). We could create multiple terrain types out of every texture, with only difference being the scale factor, and assign these to different corners of the tiles. This will make a scale noise of the same texture blended in a different scale across the terrain, making even large flat single-color plains look varied rather than tilysh. On Mirage map, i made yellow and sand use the same texture, while sand uses a bit larger scale factor. You can observe the yellow terrain on this map to see what i mean. This is not applicable to some of the textures (eg., concrete tiles must be of the same size, of course).

[Mysteryem]

I didn't solve the cliff problem yet, but they suddenly don't look too bad in this particular case.

base.wz\tileset\tertilesc[#]hwGtype.txt is what I think you're after.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I've been thinking a bit on the technical/code side of this particular issue again, and I might have a solution that would preserve compatibility while allowing new maps to take advantage of the expanded tile textures.

If I understand the code and procedure correctly, the new renderer does its' thing by looking at the tile type on the map it's loading and then assigns a texture to that tile. Differing tile types is where we get that "blending" effect.

So lets make Arizona "special" is this regard. We add ALL the tile types (Urban and Rockies) to Arizona's pool in the code, and then "trick" the renderer into rendering them as they are supposed to be, but blended in. FlaME would need an update to add the new tile types (and this would mean making Arizona's tileset include the Urban and Rockies ones -- easily done) to Arizona's data.

This method would allow all maps to remain compatible, and only new maps built this way to purposefully use tiles from the other sets would show the difference.

Possible?

[Lord Apocalypse]

You could also use libnoise and a shader to create textures or try to go the doom 3/rage route and use a mega texture for tilesets.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Not sure I follow ya, Apoc. I just want the game to load up all the terrain textures at once, and in a way that's compatible with old maps.

[NoQ]

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/ModdingTilesets

Not exactly tile types. Internal terrain type codes are assigned to each of the four corners of each tile number in eg. arizonaground.txt. Tile types you see in FlaME are used for passability and unit speed and radar color only, not for textures.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Okay. Looks straightforward enough. FlaME would still need an update to actually apply them.