I have been thinking for some time. Why Warzone 2100 doesnt have any "save game" option in multiplayer.
If you play with somebody of the same skill, your game can last for several hours. And if you want or need to take a break, you can't pause it.
It's very inconvenient :'(
Is it possible to do something about it?
Save in Multiplayer
Re: Save in Multiplayer
This was heavily proposed back in 1999 when Pumpkin Studios was active in the patching process. They looked into it and decided that it would require too much work to do, so they passed in favor of other enhancements.
Although I'm not saying it would be impossible, the fact is that it is not a trivial task and would take quite a bit of development to do.
Although I'm not saying it would be impossible, the fact is that it is not a trivial task and would take quite a bit of development to do.
The best thing to do when your philosophies don't stand up to debate is to lock the thread and claim victory.
Re: Save in Multiplayer
It would take a lot of work to implement. While 8 years ago (when most people had flakey dial-up connections) it would've probably have been worth it, nowadays I am not so sure.
Pausing, however, can (and probably will) be done. It will most likely be implemented in a similar fashion to that of AOM; whereby each player gets 5 pauses per game. This will allow the player to pause the game a maximum of 5 times a game. It is fully co-operative, however. So when a player pauses the game, any other player can un-pause it.
This will allow a player to pause the game, should he need to (e.g., to go to the toilet/let the cat out), but will not allow him to disrupt the game.
Regards, Freddie.
Pausing, however, can (and probably will) be done. It will most likely be implemented in a similar fashion to that of AOM; whereby each player gets 5 pauses per game. This will allow the player to pause the game a maximum of 5 times a game. It is fully co-operative, however. So when a player pauses the game, any other player can un-pause it.
This will allow a player to pause the game, should he need to (e.g., to go to the toilet/let the cat out), but will not allow him to disrupt the game.
Regards, Freddie.
Re: Save in Multiplayer
A feature to automatically or incrementally save during a multiplayer game, to allow players to continue in case of a crash, or to let developers reproduce it more easily, would be really awesome. Nothing is more frustrating than playing a really fun game for several hours than suddenly everything come crashing down and no way to restore & continue.
"Make a man a fire, you keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, you keep him warm for the rest of his life."
Re: Save in Multiplayer
I have noticed a "save process" ability in artmoney, it allowes you to save and load the game process in any game. If you use it as a base and make some corrections for "save command" to make it simultaneous for both players, all you will need to do is make a "load button" and screen where players can connect to the saved game.
I dont know how hard is it, but it surely easier then making it from scratch.
I dont know how hard is it, but it surely easier then making it from scratch.
Some Ideas
It's no short text, but maybe someone reads it and thinks about my ideas. Some of them might be worth your time. I know, you all don't have so much time to develope that much, but like i said - just ideas. =p
Is there an auto resynch built in the game, which resynchronizes the game to all players? I dont think so, develope that first and implement it. Auto resynchronizing every 60 Seconds or something or a button/function (maybe in the ESC-Menu "Resynchronize Game") for every player to resynchronize with all players or the hoster. Maybe the hoster should act as a server (what he/she already does, i think) and save a file containing synchronizing data on his/her own warzone-folder (maybe under a new folder just named "multiplayer" or "server") created with a random name, so it would be - more or less - impossible for a game to load old data from a previous game.
Better Solution: A system without a single server. A system where all players are hosts and clients at the same time. Then every player could have a synchronize-file on its hard drive and the game would not end if the game hoster quits (i dont know, if it does), coz there is no host or it just would switch to another host (this way, there would be one single host, but the game would switch immediately to another host (a previous client, which turns into a host), so that the game doesnt crash).
But the best Solution would be: The lobby-server could be the host server for every single game. P2P-Connections would then be only needed for LAN-Games (over Internet too, but without connection to the main-server of this community). Could make everything faster. And then the resynchronzing-file could be stored on the lobby/main server and could send it to every single player when requested every few seconds. Maybe every Computer of every player should send its game data to the server and the server compares all the data with the data of the other players if they are the same. Then the game could get a fresh resynch every XX seconds (only 60 or less seconds [better 30 at least]) and the game couldnt be asynchronous anymore - just like at the reloading of freeze-files while online-gaming at emulator-games. You could and SHOULD kill the A-synchronicity by optimizing the game code too, of course, but continue reading, there are much more possibilities:
This way, when the server gets all the game- and player-data, you could create huge statistics with it, of all the games your members play. Maybe even a highscore or something like that (with those "Points" i noticed in multiplayer games at the Alliance window - when all enemies are defeated, so that it ends, the game sends the score to the server. Team-vs-Computer (single and/or teamed up), Team-vs-Team, Singleplayer-vs-Computer (single and/or teamed up), Singleplayer-vs-Singleplayer (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. And 2v3 and other of those constallations (everything with its own statistic) get more points, coz maybe it was harder [depends on points, which are calculated with comparing with the scores of the losers, so it would be impossible to cheat (one player defeats 7 afk-players doesnt get more points than others, coz the afk-players dont have points - so a strong player beating a strong player gets more points, coz it was harder than when a strong player beats a weak player)], ect.. Like at xfire, Statistics of whole Gaming Duration too, average duration of all the games. The Possibilities are almost endless!
Of course the server needs to recognize who is who, so maybe the game could create an unique hash code for every player, which doesnt get changed through the game (generated while the installation or when first starting the game or best when first entering the lobby (hash code wouldnt change when changing to another game version, but the statistics get the information of the version anyways)(maybe you should first join the lobby for creating games, for connecting to the server that it can record the data]), (maybe the hash code should be stored in the registry or in a folder [not in the game-folder, coz of possible deinstallation]) to identificate everybody or you could implement an inGame-Login (same data as in the forums would be awesome - you could implement inForums-statistics for and in every profile automatically). Don't forget an ingame-option to turn sending player-data off for peeps who dont want to get into the statistics (like me), resynchronizing-data will be sent anyways. And you could ask the players who play the most (well, or what your statistics tell you) for bugs or any other help, whatever, its up to you. This should be able to be deactivated too. Maybe in an editable ingame-Profile which is stored in a server-database, besides the Game-Options which take effect when offline too.
You could even send Bug Reports this way directly through the game to the server, after the game crashed. Just like at Firefox: When it crashes, it tries to send a bug report through an extern .exe (i think). Of course, everybody should have the option deactivate this. Would help finding and killing bugs, coz u get specific game data and not only screenshots and explanations of situations. I even dare to think about the ultimate Debug-Feature: If turned on, the game could record every single happening! Every click, every single move and attack and whatever happens in the whole game, in a file and send it to the server once. You could then find out where EXACTLY the error appeared. This, maybe coz of possible CPU-Usage, shouldnt be activated at standard, only for people, who can and want to reproduce a situation, where an error appears. If you program a specialized program, plugin or whatever, you could load it within the game and let the WHOLE GAME get re-played by the computer with the debug-file, which stores every single happening of a whole game. Of course it should store every single mouse move too, just like a screen-spy-thingy (screen-captured videos, i dont know the name) but for ingame-data only, not for pictures - its extremly, i know - but the possibilities are.. you know it =D and the data wouldnt be that much, coz it would be text only.
Just some of my ideas. I didn't think about the Server-CPU-Usage and the possible Traffic (well, only text-data, when i start thinking about it.. and since there aren't 100 games at the same time, it is not much and it won't become much in a time where it can be more and more optimized). If CPU-Usage gets too high, coz of whatever, and you need an extra-server, just put an inGame-Banner into the Lobby, which is loaded by everybody, so u get some money for every Pop-Down, so for every load of every single player. And for every click on the banner too. Of course it wouldnt be much money, maybe 3 Euros/Dollars a month, coz there arent hundreds of players, but thats just one idea, that could help a little bit. You can do that, if you don't need an extra-server too - its good anyways! =] And i specially like my idea of connecting to the Lobby first for being able to create games. The lobby at the moment is a bit "poor", you can't even see people in a list, who are in and maybe waiting for games. Maybe there are more than anyone thinks. =p The inGame-Lobby could be like the little brother of this website - you could even see the website-news inside the game (good, because maybe not everyone surfs on the website)! Another idea of the main-server as the host for every single game: A list on the website, which displays all open and waiting games together with players (everything deactivatable inGame [a field before every opening of a game: "Display this Game on the Webseite: Yes/No]). I know, not much players around, but like i said, just ideas, as always.
The Game-Menu could then look like this:
Single Player
Multi Player
Single Player
Multi Player
Options (i think, i more like the word "Settings")
Watch Videoclips
Intro / Credits (maybe the intro can contain the credits - could look nice - like a movie trailer)
Quit Game
Sorry for all the Brackets - that happens when i do brainstorming - gets harder and harder to write everything down in a logically contiguous and even nice looking way, coz i get new and new ideas while writing too.
Too bad, but no, i can't code/program any samples for you - i can only code HTML and lol.. BBCode =[ i'm more into design.
P.S.: I did read my post and noticed: One Problem with the need of a Login for entering the Lobby is, that everyone would have to register first. Well, maybe you could make, that everybody can enter the lobby. Not logged in-users appear as "Guest1234" (unique userid at every new connection) and they can do almost everything members can, but they cant have an ingame-nickname (would be one attraction and benefit to register and becoming a member of this nice community). And some other features need an Account: Creating chatrooms (not Games), if you want this (btw, maybe the whole chat-system could base on IRC or something else - so there would be no need for writing a brand new chat-system), getting into the Statistics too (guests can display them anyways, but they cant get in without an account). And when somebody, who isnt logged in, wants to use some of those Account-needing features, there pops up a message telling that and containing the login-mask. BTW: Nice feature for guests could be anyways, that they can have a temporary nickname, but they always have to make it again when leaving the lobby-server and they only can use nicknames, who arent registered of course and cant change to a new Guest1234-name (reconnect needed for that). Nice idea, but not badly needed. But lets stay at the Game-Server, these are more Chat-Ideas.. Yes, i said Game-Server - and you will have to program one first. lol
Or porting Warzone into another one still existing (GameSpy or something else which is free to use - i don't know anything about that).
P.P.S.: My last two little ideas before going to bed: It would be nice, if the game would show you a tiny screenshot of the last screen you saw when you saved a game and some small informations about your energy, reached technology (T1, T2, T3), Number of Units, number of fields of the occupied territory, the player color you used, and so on - so you could more easily find the savegame you want to load, when you see some informations about the file, before you load it. The game would have to save a screenshot of the window every time you save. Is there an auto-saving-feature? I'm unsure at this moment. If there is none, would be nice too - with a tiny screenshot too then, just like the others. Duration between each auto-save, of course, editable in the Options/Settings.
EDIT: What's the use of "FastPlay" by the way? The idea could be nice, but since there is no random map generator and you always play the same game in FastPlay, it's useless and should be deleted till a random map generator is developed and implemented. But i would not know the use of FastPlay even then, because you should can choose "Generate Random Map" at Skirmish too and that doesnt take much more time to click through to.
EDIT 2, because of Wish List Thread: I would also like an Auto-Update-Program too. Would help build up online gaming, playing together. But you should always be able to choose, if you want to install the patch or not. The Auto-Patcher should create Backups of the Savegames too.
NEW IDEA: Tournaments and Clans: The Statistics should get resetted (and archived of course) every 1, 3 or 6 Months, to always create a new "challenge". ;D We could easily arrange Tournaments, when the Server would get all the Game-Data! The Players, who participate the Tournament, just recieve a special Tournament-Status from the Server and so there would not even be the need for a 3rd Player to watch the Game (of course you need to block people with different versions and mods to prevent cheating). They could play alone and whenever they want, and the Server then just recieves the Score at the end. Imagine - the People then could even arrange their own private Tournaments (e.g. for Clan-intern ones - yes, Clans), because no 3rd Player is needed to watch. They just activate the tournament-Status on the Community-Website (or their own Clan-Homepage you are hosting), so that the server sends it to them. You could provide all Players inGame-Clan-Functions (Tiny Logos, Clan-Tags inside the Name, ect. so no need to change those Things inside the Game, just do it over the Website). You could even implement a "Watcher"-Feature. As a Watcher you can join already-started Games - you can't play, but you can watch (fly over the Map like a Ghost - maybe with the Possibility to more zoom out). To prevent spying (a Watcher, which sees everything could help out a Player with Informations), a Watcher can only see one Player. Rejoining (when implemented in a future milestone) shouldnt work too, it needs to stay at the chosen Player watched before. Maybe you choose two or more trustable People for this job, when making Tournaments, so they can watch it. This is not needed for playing Tournaments though, but nice anyways, because they can later comment how Players play.
What'cha think about my ideas? Most of them are for the Future though, but they all should be possible, even if there are many things hardcoded. Since you got the Source, you can change everything. Like i said: Future. I'm thinking in huge dimensions. My ideas about Tournaments and Clans would bring People together and make the Community grow.
Let's fuse the Game with the Website
!
(Warzone would be one of the very rare Games which provide that good Connection between Game and Website)
Is there an auto resynch built in the game, which resynchronizes the game to all players? I dont think so, develope that first and implement it. Auto resynchronizing every 60 Seconds or something or a button/function (maybe in the ESC-Menu "Resynchronize Game") for every player to resynchronize with all players or the hoster. Maybe the hoster should act as a server (what he/she already does, i think) and save a file containing synchronizing data on his/her own warzone-folder (maybe under a new folder just named "multiplayer" or "server") created with a random name, so it would be - more or less - impossible for a game to load old data from a previous game.
Better Solution: A system without a single server. A system where all players are hosts and clients at the same time. Then every player could have a synchronize-file on its hard drive and the game would not end if the game hoster quits (i dont know, if it does), coz there is no host or it just would switch to another host (this way, there would be one single host, but the game would switch immediately to another host (a previous client, which turns into a host), so that the game doesnt crash).
But the best Solution would be: The lobby-server could be the host server for every single game. P2P-Connections would then be only needed for LAN-Games (over Internet too, but without connection to the main-server of this community). Could make everything faster. And then the resynchronzing-file could be stored on the lobby/main server and could send it to every single player when requested every few seconds. Maybe every Computer of every player should send its game data to the server and the server compares all the data with the data of the other players if they are the same. Then the game could get a fresh resynch every XX seconds (only 60 or less seconds [better 30 at least]) and the game couldnt be asynchronous anymore - just like at the reloading of freeze-files while online-gaming at emulator-games. You could and SHOULD kill the A-synchronicity by optimizing the game code too, of course, but continue reading, there are much more possibilities:
This way, when the server gets all the game- and player-data, you could create huge statistics with it, of all the games your members play. Maybe even a highscore or something like that (with those "Points" i noticed in multiplayer games at the Alliance window - when all enemies are defeated, so that it ends, the game sends the score to the server. Team-vs-Computer (single and/or teamed up), Team-vs-Team, Singleplayer-vs-Computer (single and/or teamed up), Singleplayer-vs-Singleplayer (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. And 2v3 and other of those constallations (everything with its own statistic) get more points, coz maybe it was harder [depends on points, which are calculated with comparing with the scores of the losers, so it would be impossible to cheat (one player defeats 7 afk-players doesnt get more points than others, coz the afk-players dont have points - so a strong player beating a strong player gets more points, coz it was harder than when a strong player beats a weak player)], ect.. Like at xfire, Statistics of whole Gaming Duration too, average duration of all the games. The Possibilities are almost endless!
Of course the server needs to recognize who is who, so maybe the game could create an unique hash code for every player, which doesnt get changed through the game (generated while the installation or when first starting the game or best when first entering the lobby (hash code wouldnt change when changing to another game version, but the statistics get the information of the version anyways)(maybe you should first join the lobby for creating games, for connecting to the server that it can record the data]), (maybe the hash code should be stored in the registry or in a folder [not in the game-folder, coz of possible deinstallation]) to identificate everybody or you could implement an inGame-Login (same data as in the forums would be awesome - you could implement inForums-statistics for and in every profile automatically). Don't forget an ingame-option to turn sending player-data off for peeps who dont want to get into the statistics (like me), resynchronizing-data will be sent anyways. And you could ask the players who play the most (well, or what your statistics tell you) for bugs or any other help, whatever, its up to you. This should be able to be deactivated too. Maybe in an editable ingame-Profile which is stored in a server-database, besides the Game-Options which take effect when offline too.
You could even send Bug Reports this way directly through the game to the server, after the game crashed. Just like at Firefox: When it crashes, it tries to send a bug report through an extern .exe (i think). Of course, everybody should have the option deactivate this. Would help finding and killing bugs, coz u get specific game data and not only screenshots and explanations of situations. I even dare to think about the ultimate Debug-Feature: If turned on, the game could record every single happening! Every click, every single move and attack and whatever happens in the whole game, in a file and send it to the server once. You could then find out where EXACTLY the error appeared. This, maybe coz of possible CPU-Usage, shouldnt be activated at standard, only for people, who can and want to reproduce a situation, where an error appears. If you program a specialized program, plugin or whatever, you could load it within the game and let the WHOLE GAME get re-played by the computer with the debug-file, which stores every single happening of a whole game. Of course it should store every single mouse move too, just like a screen-spy-thingy (screen-captured videos, i dont know the name) but for ingame-data only, not for pictures - its extremly, i know - but the possibilities are.. you know it =D and the data wouldnt be that much, coz it would be text only.
Just some of my ideas. I didn't think about the Server-CPU-Usage and the possible Traffic (well, only text-data, when i start thinking about it.. and since there aren't 100 games at the same time, it is not much and it won't become much in a time where it can be more and more optimized). If CPU-Usage gets too high, coz of whatever, and you need an extra-server, just put an inGame-Banner into the Lobby, which is loaded by everybody, so u get some money for every Pop-Down, so for every load of every single player. And for every click on the banner too. Of course it wouldnt be much money, maybe 3 Euros/Dollars a month, coz there arent hundreds of players, but thats just one idea, that could help a little bit. You can do that, if you don't need an extra-server too - its good anyways! =] And i specially like my idea of connecting to the Lobby first for being able to create games. The lobby at the moment is a bit "poor", you can't even see people in a list, who are in and maybe waiting for games. Maybe there are more than anyone thinks. =p The inGame-Lobby could be like the little brother of this website - you could even see the website-news inside the game (good, because maybe not everyone surfs on the website)! Another idea of the main-server as the host for every single game: A list on the website, which displays all open and waiting games together with players (everything deactivatable inGame [a field before every opening of a game: "Display this Game on the Webseite: Yes/No]). I know, not much players around, but like i said, just ideas, as always.
The Game-Menu could then look like this:
Single Player
- New Campaign
- Start Skirmish (yes, there are more than one players on the map, but you play it alone as one Human, so it's single player)
- Load saved Game
- Campaign- and Skirmish-Savegames (a button to switch between or display both campaign saves on the left and skirmish saves on the right side)
- Tutorial (somewhere inside the tutorial, it should tell you, that you, if you need/want more informations (the tutorial could be extended), can read the manual or whatever on the website too, with a clickable link)
Multi Player
- Connect to the Lobby-Server (there you will be able to list all games at the startscreen, to create new games, to read website-news, to list all waiting players, to chat with them in a main channel [like the channel you are in when creating and before starting multiplayer games] and to see the latest statistics of games and players)
- LAN-Connection (there you will be able to host or join a game by typing the ip/address)
Single Player
Multi Player
Options (i think, i more like the word "Settings")
Watch Videoclips
Intro / Credits (maybe the intro can contain the credits - could look nice - like a movie trailer)
Quit Game
Sorry for all the Brackets - that happens when i do brainstorming - gets harder and harder to write everything down in a logically contiguous and even nice looking way, coz i get new and new ideas while writing too.
Too bad, but no, i can't code/program any samples for you - i can only code HTML and lol.. BBCode =[ i'm more into design.
P.S.: I did read my post and noticed: One Problem with the need of a Login for entering the Lobby is, that everyone would have to register first. Well, maybe you could make, that everybody can enter the lobby. Not logged in-users appear as "Guest1234" (unique userid at every new connection) and they can do almost everything members can, but they cant have an ingame-nickname (would be one attraction and benefit to register and becoming a member of this nice community). And some other features need an Account: Creating chatrooms (not Games), if you want this (btw, maybe the whole chat-system could base on IRC or something else - so there would be no need for writing a brand new chat-system), getting into the Statistics too (guests can display them anyways, but they cant get in without an account). And when somebody, who isnt logged in, wants to use some of those Account-needing features, there pops up a message telling that and containing the login-mask. BTW: Nice feature for guests could be anyways, that they can have a temporary nickname, but they always have to make it again when leaving the lobby-server and they only can use nicknames, who arent registered of course and cant change to a new Guest1234-name (reconnect needed for that). Nice idea, but not badly needed. But lets stay at the Game-Server, these are more Chat-Ideas.. Yes, i said Game-Server - and you will have to program one first. lol
Or porting Warzone into another one still existing (GameSpy or something else which is free to use - i don't know anything about that).P.P.S.: My last two little ideas before going to bed: It would be nice, if the game would show you a tiny screenshot of the last screen you saw when you saved a game and some small informations about your energy, reached technology (T1, T2, T3), Number of Units, number of fields of the occupied territory, the player color you used, and so on - so you could more easily find the savegame you want to load, when you see some informations about the file, before you load it. The game would have to save a screenshot of the window every time you save. Is there an auto-saving-feature? I'm unsure at this moment. If there is none, would be nice too - with a tiny screenshot too then, just like the others. Duration between each auto-save, of course, editable in the Options/Settings.
EDIT: What's the use of "FastPlay" by the way? The idea could be nice, but since there is no random map generator and you always play the same game in FastPlay, it's useless and should be deleted till a random map generator is developed and implemented. But i would not know the use of FastPlay even then, because you should can choose "Generate Random Map" at Skirmish too and that doesnt take much more time to click through to.
EDIT 2, because of Wish List Thread: I would also like an Auto-Update-Program too. Would help build up online gaming, playing together. But you should always be able to choose, if you want to install the patch or not. The Auto-Patcher should create Backups of the Savegames too.
NEW IDEA: Tournaments and Clans: The Statistics should get resetted (and archived of course) every 1, 3 or 6 Months, to always create a new "challenge". ;D We could easily arrange Tournaments, when the Server would get all the Game-Data! The Players, who participate the Tournament, just recieve a special Tournament-Status from the Server and so there would not even be the need for a 3rd Player to watch the Game (of course you need to block people with different versions and mods to prevent cheating). They could play alone and whenever they want, and the Server then just recieves the Score at the end. Imagine - the People then could even arrange their own private Tournaments (e.g. for Clan-intern ones - yes, Clans), because no 3rd Player is needed to watch. They just activate the tournament-Status on the Community-Website (or their own Clan-Homepage you are hosting
), so that the server sends it to them. You could provide all Players inGame-Clan-Functions (Tiny Logos, Clan-Tags inside the Name, ect. so no need to change those Things inside the Game, just do it over the Website). You could even implement a "Watcher"-Feature. As a Watcher you can join already-started Games - you can't play, but you can watch (fly over the Map like a Ghost - maybe with the Possibility to more zoom out). To prevent spying (a Watcher, which sees everything could help out a Player with Informations), a Watcher can only see one Player. Rejoining (when implemented in a future milestone) shouldnt work too, it needs to stay at the chosen Player watched before. Maybe you choose two or more trustable People for this job, when making Tournaments, so they can watch it. This is not needed for playing Tournaments though, but nice anyways, because they can later comment how Players play.What'cha think about my ideas? Most of them are for the Future though, but they all should be possible, even if there are many things hardcoded. Since you got the Source, you can change everything. Like i said: Future. I'm thinking in huge dimensions. My ideas about Tournaments and Clans would bring People together and make the Community grow.
Let's fuse the Game with the Website
!(Warzone would be one of the very rare Games which provide that good Connection between Game and Website)
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Roux Le Corps
- Regular
- Posts: 741
- Joined: 11 May 2010, 07:42
- Location: Deep in the mountain ranges
oh oh...
im stirring a really old bag of worms here, but i like those ideas Zi-chan, but mostly the clan part lmao, im not sure if there are any clans for WZ2100... may have to start some 
Re: oh oh...
From Zi-Chan's user statistics:Roux Le Corps wrote:im stirring a really old bag of worms here, but i like those ideas Zi-chan, but mostly the clan part lmao, im not sure if there are any clans for WZ2100... may have to start some
"Last visited: 02 Aug 2009, 09:37"
I guess you shouldn't expect any replies from him at this stage
Anyway, I don't know if we have enough people playing MP to justify having *clans*. But the saving in MP option is already planned for the future, so there's no real reason to use *this* topic to discuss it (the title is completely misguiding). You could select the information from here and quote it in another topic to discuss this specific theme, IMO.
~Olrox
Re: oh oh...
Psst, over here ...Olrox wrote:From Zi-Chan's user statistics:Roux Le Corps wrote:im stirring a really old bag of worms here, but i like those ideas Zi-chan, but mostly the clan part lmao, im not sure if there are any clans for WZ2100... may have to start some
"Last visited: 02 Aug 2009, 09:37"
I guess you shouldn't expect any replies from him at this stage
-
Roux Le Corps
- Regular
- Posts: 741
- Joined: 11 May 2010, 07:42
- Location: Deep in the mountain ranges