Research with allies

[PeTSoN]

well.. i know that when u're researching a new tecnology your allies get a heart in that one so they know when you're doing it but when im playing... lots of times in the starting we just try to research as fast as we can and click without check (clicking in the green research button another time) but when we notice it its too late we already wasted power in it..
i dont know about programming so i will just give some ideas.. and i hope i can help
1- if there was a cumulative research 2 players research the same tech= 2 times speed(i think its not possible)
2- someway to block when another player is doing it (problem: he stops u lose it as well and have a lot of time wasted)
3- just return money and lose the research progress (problem: lab is destroyed= research lost?)
4- stay the way it is, learn how to play better and dont complain!

[Thyranim]

other suggestion but don't know, how difficult it will be to get implemtend (i'm not a progammer ^^ )
instead of displaying a heart, change the colour of the box from blue to, for example, green ?!
so you can see by the colour of the box, if it is researched by an ally. and the whole box in another colour stands out much more, than a single heart

[Zarel]

How's about if I just make the heart pink? That should make it easier to see.

I'm still thinking about how to handle concurrent research. Maybe disallow it entirely unless you hold down Alt?

[Olrox]

How's about if I just make the heart pink? That should make it easier to see.

I'm still thinking about how to handle concurrent research. Maybe disallow it entirely unless you hold down Alt?

It's an interesting idea, using Alt for this. It makes sense, because Alt works as "forced action" on other features you've already implemented: Attack your own units/structures and completely unload transport.

If simultaneous research, with cumulative speed, was possible, then the players should also be able to assign to multiple research facilities a single subject. And that's not *that* interesting, would make it too easy to research things that are natively balanced by time consumption, such as Sattelite uplink center, auto-repair (kind of), super heavy bodies, gauss cannon, plasma cannon, archangel missile and so on.

[KenAlcock]

I would like to add to this discussion, but I'm not confident I have all the facts straight. Everything below is just from my own observation. So if others in-the-know could correct me where I've gone astray that would be helpful.

1. There are two phases of technological research:
   1. Power Allocation Phase - This is the green progress bar, where power must first be allocated toward researching a technology before the actual research can begin. If you are low on power, the research facility must wait for power allocation in a queue alongside any current:
      • Factory unit production
      • Structure construction
      • Unit repair
      • Structure repair
   2. Research Phase - This is the yellow progress bar, which counts down the time required to complete the technological research. At this point, sufficient power has already been fully allocated toward researching the chosen technology, and at least some portion (however small) of the research is complete.
2. Research underway in any individual research facility can be paused by right-clicking one time on the tech image above that research facility in the Research Control Panel. The tech image will then blink indicating that research is paused. Research can be paused in either of the two aforementioned phases:
   • Power Allocation Phase - All power previously allocated toward researching the chosen tech is still allocated; however, the research facility will not be allocated any additional power while research is paused.
     
     NOTE: This is useful for freeing up power consumption in order to produce more units or to build and repair defensive structures in the event of an attack.
   • Research Phase - All power previously allocated toward researching the chosen tech (which was fully funded) is still allocated.
     
     NOTE: There is absolutely no advantage in pausing technological research during this phase--the research has already been fully funded at this point so no additional power would be allocated anyway. Pausing research during this phase needlessly occupies the research facility.
3. Research underway in any individual research facility can be suspended by right-clicking two times on the tech image above that research facility in the Research Control Panel. The tech image will then be replaced by the question mark image indicating that the research facility is now unused. Research can be suspended in either of the two aforementioned phases:
   • Power Allocation Phase - Any power previously allocated toward researching the chosen technology is released and made available for other actions. It is as if the research was never initiated in the first place.
   • Research Phase - All power previously allocated toward researching the chosen tech (which was fully funded) is still allocated. However, the research facility is freed up to research other technology. If you suspend research during this phase and later go back to research the same technology, you will not lose any research progress; it does not matter if the same research facility is used to continue the research or a different one.
     
     NOTE: Unlike pausing technology research during this phase, suspending a fully funded research is useful when you realize that you need another technology more urgently than the current one. (Like when you have no anti-craft tech researched and VTOLs are attacking your base at-will.)

[KenAlcock]

So with the above information in my post above in mind, I always worry about the things below whenever I'm playing in multi-player (MP) games and I see the heart icon telling me that my ally is researching some technology that I really want to use.

Q1: During which of an ally's research phases is the heart icon displayed on a teammate's Research Technology List?

1. Power Allocation Phase - If the heart icon appears during this phase, it could mean the ally does not have enough power to start researching the technology immediately. And when seeing the heart icon, most knowledgeable players will chose not to research the same technology--believing the ally is already researching it when he is not (since the research is not yet fully funded). Therefore, teammates could end up waiting for technology that never comes when some of them may have had enough power to research it immediately.
2. Research Phase - If the heart icon appears during this phase, then it accurately communicates to the team that the technology is fully funded and forthcoming (so long as the research facility is not destroyed in the mean time).

Q2: What happens to the heart icon on a teammate's Research Technology List, when an ally pauses research on a technology during either research phase?

1. Power Allocation Phase -
2. Research Phase -

Q3: What happens to the heart icon on a teammate's Research Technology List, when an ally suspends research on a technology during either research phase?

1. Power Allocation Phase -
2. Research Phase -

Q4: What happens when an ally suspends research on a technology during the Research Phase phase and a teammate starts researching the same technology?

[KenAlcock]

So with the above questions in mind (and the previous observations), I propose the following:

• When an ally is in the Power Allocation Phase on a tech:
  • Teammates see a green heart icon on the tech, which means the ally does not have enough power to research the tech yet.
  • Only teammates with enough power to fully fund the research may select to research the technology. Doing so automatically suspends research at the ally's research facility and any power the ally allocated reverts back to the ally. The Teammate that picks up the research fully funds it from his own power reserves.
• When an ally has paused research during the Power Allocation Phase on a tech:
  • Teammates see a green pause icon on the tech.
  • Any teammate may select to research the same technology. Doing so automatically suspends the research at the ally's research facility, any power the ally had allocated reverts back to the ally. The Teammate that picks up the research must fully fund it from his own power reserves before he can enter the Research Phase, but his reserves do not need to contain enough power to fully fund the research in order to pick up the research from his ally.
• When an ally has suspended research during the Power Allocation Phase on a tech:
  • Teammates see nothing out-of-the-ordinary on the tech, as this condition is the same as if research was never actually started in the first place.
• When an ally is in the Research Phase on a tech:
  • Teammates see a yellow heart icon on the tech.
  • Teammates may not select to research the same technology.
• When an ally has paused research during the Research Phase on a tech:
  • Teammates see a yellow pause icon on the tech.
  • Any teammate may select to research the same technology. Doing so automatically suspends the research at the ally's research facility and any power the ally had allocated is still allocated. Since the research was already fully funded by the ally, the teammate that picks up the research does not have to pay anything for it. Any previous research progress the ally accumulated is transferred to the teammate that picks up the research.
• When an ally has suspended research during the Research Phase on a tech:
  • Teammates see a red pause icon on the tech.
  • Any teammate may select to research the same technology. Since the research was already fully funded by the ally, the teammate that picks up the research does not have to pay anything for it. Any previous research progress the ally accumulated is transferred to the teammate that picks up the research.

[KukY]

I like your ideas, kenalcock .

[Zarel]

Q1: During which of an ally's research phases is the heart icon displayed on a teammate's Research Technology List?

It appears during both phases - i.e. it appears at the beginning of power allocation. I've been thinking about having two icons, one for allocation phase, one for research phase.

Also, you may as well call them "power allocation phase" and "research phase" like we do. No need to make up your own words for them.

Q2: What happens to the heart icon on a teammate's Research Technology List, when an ally pauses research on a technology during either research phase?

Stays there. I'll make it blink for the next version.

Q3: What happens to the heart icon on a teammate's Research Technology List, when an ally suspends research on a technology during either research phase?

Disappears.

Q4: What happens when an ally suspends research on a technology during the Technological Research phase and a teammate starts researching the same technology?

See above.

[KenAlcock]

@Zarel Thanks for the responses.

It appears during both phases - i.e. it appears at the beginning of power allocation. I've been thinking about having two icons, one for allocation phase, one for research phase.

So things are exactly as I feared in the multi-player game--we could be sitting there waiting on an ally to research a critical tech, who does not know how to manage his power, all-the-while it appears like he is researching the tech when in actuality he doesn't have the power to fund the research.

And I know I could just give that ally power. But doing that would spread the power over his queue of things that need power allocated: construction, production, repair.

Also, you may as well call them "power allocation phase" and "research phase" like we do. No need to make up your own words for them.

I've edited my posts above to this effect. I don't really know why I didn't use those names to begin with?

Q2: What happens to the heart icon on a teammate's Research Technology List, when an ally pauses research on a technology during either research phase?

Stays there. I'll make it blink for the next version.

That's a step up from the current behavior.

Q3: What happens to the heart icon on a teammate's Research Technology List, when an ally suspends research on a technology during either research phase?

Disappears.

Okay this one is as expected. I thought as much, but I wanted to be sure.

Q4: What happens when an ally suspends research on a technology during the Technological Research phase and a teammate starts researching the same technology?

See above.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified this question better. Let's try this one again.

Q4:What happens to the power the ally allocated to the research and the progress he already achieved when the ally suspends research on a technology during the Research Phase and a teammate starts researching the same technology?

Q5: Care to comment on the programming feasibility, balance issues, et cetera, for the ideas I suggested above? I have covered all the use cases there. It should make multi-player team play much more collaborative.

[Zarel]

That's a step up from the current behavior.

Unfortunately, it appears I can't make it do that; the sync code isn't good enough.

Q4:What happens to the power the ally allocated to the research and the progress he already achieved when the ally suspends research on a technology during the Research Phase and a teammate starts researching the same technology?

Absolutely nothing.

- When someone finishes researching something, it automatically completes for all their allies.

- If one of your allies' research facilities has a topic selected (regardless of if it's in power allocation, research, or paused), it will have a heart on your screen.

Other than those two things, research proceeds as if you weren't allies.

Q5: Care to comment on the programming feasibility, balance issues, et cetera, for the ideas I suggested above? I have covered all the use cases there. It should make multi-player team play much more collaborative.

Most of it's perfectly feasible, aside from the problem of the research sync code, which I am trying to resolve. I don't know if I'll be able to do it, so don't count on it.

[mcdebugger]

good ideas, kenalcock!

[DylanDog]

How's about if I just make the heart pink? That should make it easier to see.

I'm still thinking about how to handle concurrent research. Maybe disallow it entirely unless you hold down Alt?

Good idea. I agree.

[Tenoh]

Not sure if its possible but i would just add progress bar on that icon to show allies progress with the topic,simple.If he doesn't have enough power you will see rightaway.

[Per]

I know I'm late to this party, but I have a different suggestion. The heart's colour changes to show whether an item is fully funded, underfunded, or paused, and if you select to research the same item as an ally, you help fund it with your own power and un-pause it if it is paused. That way you can kick into gears the research of a critical tech you are waiting for. I too have seen that happen in games to some frustration (although I must admit that I am often the laggard).