Projectiles, Launchers & Whatnot

[zeland]

I've been reading through the posts with regards to balancing something or another, and it seems (at least to me) that changes are done on a whim or a fancy and “see how it goes” approach. Then we start to have debates about like “why mini-pods should have AA capabilities while Lancers don't” or Artillery/Hovers vs Artillery/Tracks.

In another post, I suggested that we look at all the individual components in the game and get people to define their properties in hopes that this would/should give us some consistency when deciding the capabilities of the object as a whole and how it would effect other objects. For example a weapon should be seen as a combination of projectile + launcher. Then we can proceed to define types of projectiles like Bullets, Shells, Rockets, Missiles, Beams etc. Each projectile could have properties for example a mortar shell:

size = 80mm;
direct_fire = no;
incendiary = yes;
guided = yes;
homing = no;
range = 500;
splash = 20;
speed = 100;

Launchers would then have multipliers that effect the base property of each projectile.

While I believe that the game engine doesn't support or doesn't have this type of fine grain distinction, we could at least use this information as a guideline for balance. And if the devs do finally decide to update/upgrade the projectile system, this might be something that they can drive towards.

In the long run, this may also allow us to change the length and way of the research chain and make it more “intuitive”. For example, researching "Rotary Fire" will immediately give us access to Rotary Machine Gun, Pepper Pot, Hellstorm. "Chain/Belt Feed" instantly gives all bullet based weapons like Machine Guns & Assault Guns better ROF. “Rifling” gives better accuracy, “Barrel Extension” give better range etc.

[Tenoh]

You would have to probably rewrite the engine for this so i doubt anyone will bother.

[Zarel]

I've been reading through the posts with regards to balancing something or another, and it seems (at least to me) that changes are done on a whim or a fancy and “see how it goes” approach. Then we start to have debates about like “why mini-pods should have AA capabilities while Lancers don't” or Artillery/Hovers vs Artillery/Tracks.

No, changes are done on a "we have a good balance reason for this, as well as an in-game justification for why it' makes sense" approach.

Every game works like this: Balance comes first, then we describe our weapons accordingly to how we balance them. We don't describe our weapons, then change our balance to suit the description; the game balance would be terrible.

[zeland]

No, changes are done on a "we have a good balance reason for this, as well as an in-game justification for why it' makes sense" approach.

Wasn't exactly how I wanted it to sound. Anyway...

Every game works like this: Balance comes first, then we describe our weapons accordingly to how we balance them. We don't describe our weapons, then change our balance to suit the description; the game balance would be terrible.

What I'm trying to get at is that any object in the game should act consistently against another object provided there are no external influences/forces acting upon it. Example: A 50 Calibre round should incur the same amount of damage against an armoured vehicle regardless if it was fired from an infantry held gun or from a gun emplacement. However, gun emplacements have longer barrels thus giving the same 50 Calibre round better range and muzzle velocity increasing its damage performance.

By not having a well defined objects, we have inconsistency such as the HEAT to HESH rocket upgrade. HESH were the old anti-tank warheads that flattens against armoured targets and when detonated, delivers a powerful shock wave through the armour, shattering the inside surface into high velocity fragments. Advances in armour and hull building have rendered HESH warheads almost useless. Because the explosive content, HESH warheads are still in used against unarmoured vehicles and structures. HEAT warhead explosion forces a 'jet' of superheated material forward in a narrow cone shape into the armour that jet blasts a narrow hole through armour. In this respect, if we were upgrading, it should be a HESH to HEAT, but I would personally like them both to exist as 2 separate rocket lines for 2 different roles.

[Zarel]

It's a game. The upgrades are named for flavor reasons. All they do is increase damage.

[robby_kane]

then what was the point of renaming MRL (multiple rocket launcher) when it did exactly what then name said it did? and yet still call the hesh.....

oh hell with it im nit arguing with someone that made rockets aa and not missiles.... when rockets should be anti vehicular as well witch end up doing no damage.... what about rpg7 vs a tank? or the at4 ast (Anti Structure Tandem) witch is a rocket not a missile

at4 (rocket)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0azEG0CPY
MRLS(multiple rocket launching system)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70taw5tv ... re=related

note the size of a scavenger to a rocket pod in game...
if a scavenger in real life can take out a tank with one rocket (unbalanced in game if it was a 1 hit xD)

not not about changing thing its about weather or not it should be changed and y it should... also there should be votes on it

also ur doing it for a mod, where can we download 2.3?

also u should ad rocket range upgrades and nurf the MRL or whatever u renamed it to back to what it was... that way it ends up being useful... that and it should do the same damage as a mini-pod per shot... cose atm the mrl makes mini-pods pointless even if they r cheaper

EDIT cannon-> mortar-> pepper pot and mortar has more range then rockets and is easy to get a hold of

mini-pod -> mini-rocket salvo(short range like minipod, same damage as mini-pod, higher rof more weight and cost)-> mrls (artillery ver. of rocket)

[Zarel]

then what was the point of renaming MRL (multiple rocket launcher) when it did exactly what then name said it did? and yet still call the hesh.....

Erm, it was and Mini-Rocket Artillery. All I did was rename it to Mini-Rocket Array, since the forum users think that makes more sense.

A few people call it "MRL", but that's never been its official name.