Underpowered Anti-Air

[Mertens]

a lot of the above arguments asume you play a game that starts at tech 2/3. as vtols build at arround the same speed as other units, 10 medium heap bombers can wipe a few base structures pretty mutch even with 30 AA with mid-level upgrades.

with the queueing of attacks a few heap bombers can wipe out lots of AA with the splash damage to make way for a few more to attack the base.

i think either as serm says AA needs to be up powerd, or vtols weakend in strength... not by much mind, but enough to make you think more about either how you use your air support or how you build your AA

[Tenoh]

i still wish targets selection for missiles would be upgraded.If one launcher sees that first unit already targeted then it should go for other unit.simple.

[Revelo]

This is where I would come up with something unorthodox like an EMP cannon which has an AoE purpose and can disable small groups of vehicles. I thought have thought by 2100 EMP would have been improved on and used.

[Per]

i still wish targets selection for missiles would be upgraded.If one launcher sees that first unit already targeted then it should go for other unit.simple.

It is not so simple. If AA were to follow such a naive algorithm, then the end result could simply be that your 30 AA would fire off three shots against 3 attacking VTOLs, and since those 3 shots were insufficient to shoot them down, the 3 VTOLs would pass over your AA field intact, whereas with the current algorithm, they would most likely be shot down.

In order to get a decent algorithm for distributing and delaying shots, you also need to factor in hit chance and probable damage relative to target's hitpoints.

Then it may be easier just to make AA weapons into batteries with multiple shots before having to recharge.

[Tenoh]

I only meant the missiles.one launcher has 4 missiles, should be enough to kill 1 medium vtol.Computer should know things like that but yeah, you right about everything else. How about cycling targeting?

[BulletMagnet]

i fail to see how Tenoh's solution is a problem; that sounds exactly what i did in an equivalent mod for Supreme Commander.

[Zarel]

I only meant the missiles.one launcher has 4 missiles, should be enough to kill 1 medium vtol.

1. That's only if it hits. Even though all AA are homing, they will only home in if they succeed in their to-hit roll, which is 50%-80%
2. 4 missiles isn't enough to kill a medium VTOLs.

A HEAP Retrib VTOL has 2448 HP and 81 armor with minimum armor upgrades.

Four vindicator missiles (the best missile AA) can do a maximum total of 1468 damage with maximum damage upgrades, and that's only if every missile hits (usually only around 18% chance).

Computer should know things like that but yeah, you right about everything else. How about cycling targeting?

Underkill. :/

The best you can do is predictive "is this unit going to be dead by the time all projectiles in the air have EOL'd?" and because Warzone is probabilistic, you can never know for sure. You don't want to underkill, especially when dealing with VTOLs. I suppose having a threshold of 120% would be sufficient (i.e. "is this unit going to have taken 120% its max HP by..."), but yeah, go code that yourself. We'd accept your patch, if it did that.

[icyflames]

I don't understand the fuss with missiles. Take the following algorithm:

1. SAM targets nearest target.
2. Target 1 destroyed.
3. Missiles in mid-air target next nearest target. Maybe even make this type of advanced homing some kind of researchable upgrade.


I also support the idea of better dogfighting. I think someone pointed out that VTOL sensors can actually target enemy VTOLs, but the problem is that currently the VTOL weapons, rather than their target systems are too weak. Unless you use lancers/scourge, but that brings you back to the same problem as SAM targeting...

[Tenoh]

Well maybe the Sams should target every enemy in the range, only fire on the closest? that way when first is dead missiles can go for a second closest target.... i think.

[Zarel]

Erm, that's an idea, but it's a bit difficult to implement. Per, thoughts?

[cheesepuffgd]

one solution is to build other vtols with lnacers or tank killers. those work really well on
VTOLs. they are somewhat innaccurate though

[Per]

I don't understand the fuss with missiles. Take the following algorithm:

1. SAM targets nearest target.
2. Target 1 destroyed.
3. Missiles in mid-air target next nearest target. Maybe even make this type of advanced homing some kind of researchable upgrade.

Sounds good to me.

[Avestron]

Search and Destroy missiles research.

[lav_coyote25]

vtols can and DO use lancers / tank killers / scourge against other vtols and with great effect. lancers will use more than tank killers and tk's will use more than scourge ( usually 1 hit one kill on most of the med to small bodies...).

[J.Vaughan]

Scourage light body vtols do assigned to a tower will do nasty damage to incoming vtols. Trick is to get them early, not easy on mp I will agree (I can't even keep my oil derricks lately ). I've been noticing the seemingly lack of AA power as well lately but that's because I've never researched the upgrades. Instead my strategy was to shoot for the strombinger AA before my friends amass their army of tiger plasmite bomb vtols. So far on 2v1 mp game I can't manage to get to the strombinger quick enough, as I've been getting raped lately by vtols... The next time I play that will be my first goal and see how that works.

These dudes love to bring 20+ heavies at me each and being a turtle player... I get absolutely destroyed.