Anti-Truck Rush Idea

[3drts]

Would it be possible to have truck build rate be inversely proportional to their distance from the nearest base structure? (preferably this would only apply to structure build rate).

And to those that answer anything is possible now that the source code is released....
Would it be relatively easy to do?

[Zarel]

It's easy to implement, but no. One, people would just build like a CRPs everywhere. Two, Warzone is designed so structures don't need to be built near a base, they can be built anywhere.

[Ironfist]

Will be easy to fix that.
The Comando Post should have machine gun turrests (2 would be enough)
Then truck rush will not work anymore.

[fisk0]

I think that could be too big a change to be the "official" warzone 2100.
a mod where that is implemented would be interesting, or to take it a step further, have _all_ base buildings be equipped with a primitive machine gun (like a scavenger gun or just half the standard MG or something) - didn't the early 90's RTS "Z" do that? That could be enough to keep truck rushes away in the early game (the gun would soon be too weak to hold off any stronger units, later in the game as you upgrade building structural integrity stuff the gun could slowly be upgraded to standard MG, HMG, assault gun etc, but generally stay a step behind researched weapons).

[Avestron]

Why not just build a few MG towers in addition to structures?

As things stand the only tennable defense against a rush is to rush.

That and scav patrols - to a point.

Another way of going about it is having trucks carry limited building materials so that they 'must' build a command center (or an ammunition depot) for restocking. That idea has been shot down however.

[Andreas XXL]

Here is a discussion about it:
http://developer.wz2100.net/ticket/696

Summary:
Ideas which are possible to implement:

1. More requirements for the rower: factory, HQ. This makes that you get the towers at the same time as the tanks. So you can attack the trucks. And you can use the towers to defence your base too. => no tower rushes AND no tank rushes
2. Give trucks an ability to impede enemy building (except base structures)


I think Idea 1 is more easy to implement. And you can perhaps get new problems with idea 2 which we now do not think about.

[tehloserer]

Instead of crying to the devs, why not think and play better?

Make Factory, Research, Command Center and then you can make MG tanks to fight as fast as possible. As long as you're not playing on SK-Rush then you should be able to get a tank out before, if not as, the first tower completes. Make a tower of your own in your base, and continue making tanks. Get Light Cannon as fast as you can, and then crush the tower rusher.

If you are playing on SK-Rush, then you have to make a tower in your base as soon as you can, or send a guy to do the same to them. My advice on playing SK-Rush, don't.

Another fun thing to do on small maps that you have a good feeling your opponent will truck rush you, don't be there when they get there. Take your starting trucks and move away from your base, hide a factory/res/CC and start making MG tanks.

I've stopped several truck rushes, and not once with the mentality of "I have to do it to beat it." Everything has a counter in this game, find them.

To the devs, I don't think there is anything wrong with MG Tower, just something wrong with the players that can't see past it.

regards,
TehLo

[zoid]

Right on, TehLo!!
(BTW, you don't have to play T1 no bases if you don't want to.)

[Andreas XXL]

Instead of crying to the devs, why not think and play better?

Make Factory, Research, Command Center and then you can make MG tanks to fight as fast as possible. As long as you're not playing on SK-Rush then you should be able to get a tank out before, if not as, the first tower completes. Make a tower of your own in your base, and continue making tanks. Get Light Cannon as fast as you can, and then crush the tower rusher.

If you are playing on SK-Rush, then you have to make a tower in your base as soon as you can, or send a guy to do the same to them. My advice on playing SK-Rush, don't.

Another fun thing to do on small maps that you have a good feeling your opponent will truck rush you, don't be there when they get there. Take your starting trucks and move away from your base, hide a factory/res/CC and start making MG tanks.

I've stopped several truck rushes, and not once with the mentality of "I have to do it to beat it." Everything has a counter in this game, find them.

To the devs, I don't think there is anything wrong with MG Tower, just something wrong with the players that can't see past it.

regards,
TehLo

This does simply not work!

For a tower rush you need only a single research building and 2 researches.

For a tank you need a research building, a factory, the HQ and one research.
This means you get the tank very long time after the towers.

The idea of puting a tower in your own base does not work. Because the enemy uses all his trucks to build towers. He can build them faster as your single tower can destroy them. As the enemy has two towers in your base you loose.
The next problem ist, that if you build the one tower and try to play a "normal" game after it. (Building tanks)
you spend energy to the HQ, factory.
Conclution: You have much less energy as the tower attacker and you can not defence yourself.

The only way to defence is to do exactly the same.
This means a game often ends after 3-5 Minutes.

With the problems in the lobby, you need half an hour to find people to start a game without a crash.
One player uses the tower attack tactic.
(Most times again a noob player, wich he can find at looking at the medals).
The noob has really no chance. He left the game
(And he often writes what a stupid game this is).
More Player in the same team left game too.
Complete fight ends after 3-5 Minutes.

And i think this is really stupid. And not the idea of Warzone Multiplayer fight.

[devastator]

I made same topic at general discussion...
Right,MG towers need less then MG units..But trucks need to move to your base.This time must be enough for you to build defense(units can be defense too).

[Per]

How about we put cannon bunkers really early in the game, and allow cannons to blow any tower type structure away easily?

[Zarel]

The idea of puting a tower in your own base does not work. Because the enemy uses all his trucks to build towers. He can build them faster as your single tower can destroy them. As the enemy has two towers in your base you loose.
The next problem ist, that if you build the one tower and try to play a "normal" game after it. (Building tanks)
you spend energy to the HQ, factory.
Conclution: You have much less energy as the tower attacker and you can not defence yourself.

The only way to defence is to do exactly the same.
This means a game often ends after 3-5 Minutes.

Ahah! This is not true for several reasons.

Even if you both truck rush each other, that doesn't necessarily mean that it ends immediately. I remember a game of testing Rebalance 0.4.2 with Acidjnk in which he tower rushed me, and I had no choice but to retaliate by tower rushing him, and so we ended up just switching places. That was one of the most fun games I played, and by the time it ended he was hitting me with Ripple Rockets and I was annihilating his base with Twin Assault Gun.

[tehloserer]

Andreas XXL Game on anytime, I show you. I beat this strat all the time. I have 3rd truck out faster than any player that doesn't make a factory first and that helps build the command center. While CC is coming up, I get research for MG and MG tower. I bet I can make a tower and have a tank to chase you out at the same time. Unless you're talking about playing on SK-Rush, SK-UrbanChasm, or any other map smaller than SK-HighGround. Then your first tower will be completing as my first MG tank pops out.

Your trucks don't start in my base, and the time it takes them to get to me I will have what I need. Since you can't send both your starting trucks, I'll have more trucks than you so I can make counter towers faster than your one truck can.

How about we put cannon bunkers really early in the game, and allow cannons to blow any tower type structure away easily?

no, bad, never. Making defense to counter defense is bad development IMO. Not to mention that you would be giving tower rushers a better weapon. I could see making one or two MG towers to stall until LCBunker is available. Then build those in their base. I swear there is nothing wrong with MG tower. If anything, place MG tower at same res slot as TMG. Then players would have to research three MG ups before they had the chance to research MG tower. Would reduce truck rushes, and maybe break some of playing in that all too popular "turtle" posture.

I've taken down single towers with 5 MG tanks and a little bit of micro, and not lost a single tank. They are not imbalanced. Players are just lazy.

[lav_coyote25]

How about we put cannon bunkers really early in the game, and allow cannons to blow any tower type structure away easily?

i dont see why these can not be used right away... the light cannon hard point is already in multiplayeer / skirmish single player... it should be included right away. which will free up one spot on the research tree for some NEW piece of equipment....(whatever it is).

[Avestron]

I personally think that there are various ways that this can be resolved - baring what I've mentioned already.

I think that it would be appropriate to produce a weapon which precedes MG and cannon weapons - simply the 'gun'. (scavenger level tech) - and its structure equivalent - the gun shack (scavenger bunker)

In researching this weapon two fields open up - MG for rapid fire and Cannon for high power ammunition.

- - -

This would delay and weaken initial tower rush tactics - though it would remain possible to rush.