Secondary weapons.

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Skrim
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Secondary weapons.

Post by Skrim » 28 Nov 2008, 08:55

fisk0 wrote:About the weapon mount points - I guess this could require a lot of programming and stuff, but maybe there could be an additional weapon category, on the opposite side of the size spectrum from the fortress guns, just miniature defensive weapons? They could be smaller and somewhat weaker models of the standard weapons, like the cyclone with only two barrels instead of the standard four, lancer/scourge/AT rockets with only one launcher instead of two, and otherwise only light weapons like light cannons, machineguns, flashlight lasers, needleguns and such
Zarel wrote:Those are called cyborg weapons. ;)
I was reading this in Elio's thread about his new HQ design.

It occurred to me that miniaturized weapons like this are actually absent, and would add extra realism if they were present. Real war machines carry secondary weapons.

Real tanks usually have about 2 machineguns, either 7.62 or 12.7 mm, to defend against enemy infantry, and one 120 or 125 mm heavy cannon. The heavy cannon can fire a whole bunch of different ammo types depending on what it's target is(APFSDS against tanks, HEAT against other vehicles, HESH against structures, HE-Frag against dug-in infantry). Even attack helicopters usually carry two to four anti-tank homing missile packs, which have HEAT warheads usually, but can be equipped with other warheads like the Hellfire's thermobaric MAC anti-structure warhead. Along with the missile launchers, attack helicopters have 30mm chain guns effective against infantry and soft vehicles.

So we can equate the main armament with stuff that's already there(the tank guns being Heavy Cannons, the 4 AT missile packs being equatable to 2 Scourge launchers). But the secondary weaponry is more like the stuff cyborgs carry.

So here's my idea:

The number of secondary weapon slots on a design are based on it's main turret -
Heavy Weapons(HC, Gauss Cannon, Heavy Laser, Plasma Cannon, Twin AG, Twin A-Can, all AA guns, etc.) - 2 slots.
Medium Weapons(MC, HPV, A-Can, TK, Scourge, Inferno, AG, Rail Gun, Pulse Laser, Vindicator, etc.) - 1 slot.
Light Weapons(LC, MG, TMG, HMG, Flamer, Lancer, Minipod, BunkerBuster, Avenger, Flashlight, Needle Gun, etc.) - 0 slots.
Artillery Weapons - 0 slots.
VTOL Weapons - 1 slot.
VTOL Bombs - 2 slots.

The secondary weapons available would be exactly like cyborg weapons, with the same graphics and stats. They would become available once their respective cyborg becomes available, and would simply be bolted on top and towards one side of the main turret(for 2 slot turrets) or directly on top of the main turret(for 1 slot turrets).

They would follow the same firing specifications of the main weapon, but would not be manually controlled and would simply shoot at the best target for them(eg. secondary machine guns automatically shooting those pesky cyborg flamers that run up nearby while the main gun attacks enemy tanks) which is within range. The main weapon would still dictate how the unit acts in battle - a Scourge missile tank with a secondary thermite flamer won't close in to point blank, but the thermite flamer would still shoot anything that comes too close. VTOLs would be able to use their secondary weapon as long as their main weapon has ammo. Secondary weapons would adhere to the same Hold Fire and Return Fire commands as the main weapon would.

They would add no HP to the unit, but would add half of the equivalent cyborg's price to the unit. Defensive structures would have no secondary weaponry, but base structures would have up to 3 slots like this:

Factory: 1 -> 2 -> 3 (depends on number of modules)
VTOL Factory: 1 -> 2 -> 3 (depends on modules, again)
Research Facility: 1 -> 2 (depends on modules)
Power Generator: 1 -> 2 (depends on modules)
Command Relay Center: 1
Command Center(HQ): 3
VTOL Rearming Pad: 0
Repair Facility: 1
Cyborg Factory: 1
Oil Derrick: 0

I think it would be obscenely hard to implement this into Warzone's present version, but it's just a possible idea for a future game, like 2200.

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Re: Secondary weapons.

Post by fisk0 » 29 Nov 2008, 03:52

Good to see someone took my suggestion seriously :)
That was just about what I was thinking of. Non-defensive buildings with weapon mounts shouldn't have heavy weapons on them, just something equivalent to guardposts with machineguns to fight off the most immediate threats, and similar small weapons could be mounted as secondary weapons on units, weighting less than standard/heavy weapons (but still adding some weight, in my opinion, but maybe only 1/4th of the standard weight).
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Re: Secondary weapons.

Post by shishkebab » 29 Nov 2008, 05:15

That is a great idea (both of you)! I think the two standard turrets idea was good but this is way better. I agree that the second, smaller turret should not add any extra weight as that was the problem with the dual main turrets. Nice job!

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Re: Secondary weapons.

Post by whippersnapper » 29 Nov 2008, 18:52

....

the WRP has a nice wiki page for great ideas (hundreds, maybe over a 1000) in search of folks willing
& able to do all the hard work of implementation - & with gusto..

you might consider adding this to the repository of great ideas - that is unless you plan on using this as
an actual development progress thread.

here's the wrp wiki link: http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Main_Page


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Skrim
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Re: Secondary weapons.

Post by Skrim » 30 Nov 2008, 07:45

the WRP has a nice wiki page for great ideas (hundreds, maybe over a 1000) in search of folks willing
& able to do all the hard work of implementation - & with gusto..

you might consider adding this to the repository of great ideas - that is unless you plan on using this as
an actual development progress thread.
That's what I said. Ideas outnumber implementers by an extreme ratio, and therefore this will be very hard to implement. And I personally have only a very basic knowledge of programming in C++ and Java.

The only development contributions I plan to do in the near future are mods(txt editing) and Warzone 2100 Resurrection Wiki contributions. I updated the Vehicles and Structures pages to a useful level and added the spoiler-filled Campaign Factions page recently.

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whippersnapper
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Re: Secondary weapons.

Post by whippersnapper » 30 Nov 2008, 20:39

...

besides agreeing that your ideas are good and expressed well... and that this implementation will be a lot of work...
let me also add -

this is not a one person job... preferable at least 2 with mad skills closely collaborating over months of time.

also... i think these ideas will benefit greatly from 2 current WRP development efforts coming closer to
full implementation: new homegrown model GFX format and betawidget/lua....

all the above realized i suspect that beta-testing for balance will be a big job as well.... no matter how much
foresight you apply to anticipating the consequences of introducing such new mechanics... when you get a bunch
of dedicated MP gamers testing they will uncover and exploit all imbalances in short order. imho, serious wz MPers
since day one have truly come to understand this games weaknesses and in their own ways try to address before
moving on. the Campaign mode or the SKI mode are not quite able to make these exposures (there is an exception
to this in SKI... NIKER's latest iteration of BP exposes all of WZ's major weaknesses by thoroughly exploiting them -
about as good as a vet MPer...)

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"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction." Anthem

"Art is the selective recreation of reality according to the artist's metaphysical value judgments." A. Rand
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