Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 24 Jun 2019, 20:17

alfred007 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 17:44
During my testing, I found two more issues. As you can see on the picture below my trucks are repairing a repair facility from very far away. I don't know if that was intended but it is way too far away from where they can repair the repair facility. A saved game is attached, use alpha 06-08, wait a few seconds until the NP mortar damage the repair facility and then let truck group number one repair the facility.
I can't get trucks to repair from those distances no matter what I try. Your saves were created before 4ccb14ee8479980273b00bc6b029d5c596fd8563 so maybe you only need to get a more recent build.
alfred007 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 17:44
The second issue is with the secondary hold order. I placed two MG tanks attached to a Commander in the north to gain experience from the produced Scavengers. All are having the hold order but the MG tanks are moving slowly north with every Scavenger attack. Wait a few minutes in save alpha 06-09 and you will see. There is also an info in the log file.
I can reproduce this. The units do fallback if they get too far away just like with Guard behavior.
alfred007 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 17:44
There is also an info in the log file.
This is a known issue: https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2100/issues/292.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 24 Jun 2019, 20:29

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 20:17
alfred007 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 17:44
During my testing, I found two more issues. As you can see on the picture below my trucks are repairing a repair facility from very far away. I don't know if that was intended but it is way too far away from where they can repair the repair facility. A saved game is attached, use alpha 06-08, wait a few seconds until the NP mortar damage the repair facility and then let truck group number one repair the facility.
I can't get trucks to repair from those distances no matter what I try. Your saves were created before 4ccb14ee8479980273b00bc6b029d5c596fd8563 so maybe you only need to get a more recent build.
Yeah, I forgot to install the latest master version. No issue anymore.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 30 Jun 2019, 19:19

@alfred007 could you test commander groups again with PR 414 on a few missions?

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 30 Jun 2019, 19:27

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 19:19
@alfred007 could you test commander groups again with PR 414 on a few missions?
Can I use a current Alpha 06 save or should I restart from the end of Alpha 05?

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 30 Jun 2019, 19:41

alfred007 wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 19:27
Can I use a current Alpha 06 save or should I restart from the end of Alpha 05?
You can use your current saves.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 01 Jul 2019, 20:22

Because commanders are having no difference between the shortHit and longHit accuracy the range menu isn't shown for commanders. But what about the attached units? They (nearly) all have a difference between shortHit and longHit. And if you want to change for example from long range to short range for these attached units you would have to do it manually one after the other at the moment. I think it would be more comfortable if you could change it with the menu of the commander. If possible, the range should be still also set differently for every unit. Especially when you are using mixed groups attached to a commander it could be useful to set different ranges for every unit type.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:@alfred007 could you test commander groups again with PR 414 on a few missions?
With my old saves from Alpha 06, it looks good. I'm at Alpha 08 with the unit limit patch testing at the moment and will give you my final feedback after I finished Alpha 09.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 01 Jul 2019, 21:08

I finished Alpha 08. Everything looks fine so far. Some info in the logs. Logs are attached.
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logs alpha 08.zip
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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 03 Jul 2019, 22:41

alfred007 wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 21:08
I finished Alpha 08. Everything looks fine so far. Some info in the logs. Logs are attached.
All this kind of log spam should stop now with 794139f224dda31463566f13fcb2bd9886e806d4.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 04 Jul 2019, 00:29

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 22:41
alfred007 wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 21:08
I finished Alpha 08. Everything looks fine so far. Some info in the logs. Logs are attached.
All this kind of log spam should stop now with 794139f224dda31463566f13fcb2bd9886e806d4.
Yup, looks good. I used one of my Alpha 08 saves with master version f340d89 and got no more info in the log files. I also finished Alpha 09 and think you can merge PR 414 into master. The tanks are now holding their position as they should.

One other thing is still annoying. In ticket #4472 I reported that Commanders are no longer working as sensors. This results now into the following weird situation. During Alpha 09 I placed a Commander behind a repair facility near a Scavenger base, placed two tanks at the other side of the repair facility and wait until produced Scavengers came into shooting range. One Scavenger unit was standing between the two tanks but they didn't shoot because the Commander had no direct sight at the target. Only after I moved the Commander to the side and he could directly see the Scavenger unit the attached tanks were shooting at it.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Forgon » 07 Jul 2019, 09:16

Beta 1 begins with more player power on Insane (9000) than with other
difficulties (5000).
The change was added in commit 9de49658725bfaf6929befc6e47c87952ef00396.
Should it be considered a bug or is this behavior intentional?

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 07 Jul 2019, 11:32

Forgon wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 09:16
Beta 1 begins with more player power on Insane (9000) than with other
difficulties (5000).
The change was added in commit 9de49658725bfaf6929befc6e47c87952ef00396.
Should it be considered a bug or is this behavior intentional?
That is intentional. Bethrezen was complaining that Beta 01 would be too tough with insane difficulty and only 5000 power so Berserk Cyborg changed it to 9000. I was no friend of it but he did it anyway. I think we should talk again about it when we are working again at the new campaign balance.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Forgon » 07 Jul 2019, 21:09

alfred007 wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 11:32
Forgon wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 09:16
Beta 1 begins with more player power on Insane (9000) than with other
difficulties (5000).
The change was added in commit 9de49658725bfaf6929befc6e47c87952ef00396.
Should it be considered a bug or is this behavior intentional?
That is intentional. Bethrezen was complaining that Beta 01 would be too tough with insane difficulty and only 5000 power so Berserk Cyborg changed it to 9000. I was no friend of it but he did it anyway. I think we should talk again about it when we are working again at the new campaign balance.
I made a pull request for Berserk Cyborg's camBalance branch so that we
can test campaign balance without extra power for Insane in Beta 1.

Edit: The pull request was moved to PR #435 in the main repository.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 08 Jul 2019, 21:11

The camBalance mod has finally been rebased so it can be tested again on master (and 3.3 beta2 whenever that is). I am sure we'll probably need to recheck some weapons and their ranges/accuracy again and the whole Alpha campaign again. Other than that it should be mostly the same as before.

Testing left off at Alpha 12 and these were my more important suggestions:

- Make HMG more powerful. It becomes too weak around Alpha 9, I think.
- Increase base damage of MRA a little bit.
- Reduce base cyborg lancer ROF.

camBalance.wz
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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 08 Jul 2019, 21:38

Berserk Cyborg wrote:I am sure we'll probably need to recheck some weapons and their ranges/accuracy again and the whole Alpha campaign again. Other than that it should be mostly the same as before.
I agree that we should restart from Alpha 01 to be sure that we don't miss anything now that ranges are reimplemented and accuracies were changed. I think we should wait until Forgon's unit limit patch that I'm testing at the moment is merged into master. I expect that this patch will have some remarkable influence on the balance with insane difficulty. In the Alpha campaign especially Alpha 10 and 12 for example.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Forgon » 08 Jul 2019, 22:38

alfred007 wrote:
08 Jul 2019, 21:38
[...] I think we should wait until Forgon's unit limit patch that I'm testing at the moment is merged into master. I expect that this patch will have some remarkable influence on the balance with insane difficulty. In the Alpha campaign especially Alpha 10 and 12 for example.
You mentioned problems for the transition between campaigns, and the
rescuing of units from a downed transporter in Beta.
Gamma also contains a mission in which units need to be rescued.

My current solution is to reduce the number of transporters available
with Insane for the end of both Alpha and Beta to 3, so that units can
still be built in the following missions without breaking unit limits.
With a few extra checks, transporters could not be empty or loaded with
units that would exceed unit limit allowances.

With this approach, only one issue remains: Overruling of unit limits
when rescuing units. I'm sure we all agree that this can be tolerated.

Could you remind me what I have to watch out for in Alpha 10?

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