Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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WZ2100ModsFAn
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 16 Jun 2018, 23:07

post Irrelevant to topic?
alfred007 wrote:
WZ2100ModsFAn wrote:there's also a ps1 version of wz

the video is by john god games

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OLqRfxQ_nM[/youtube]

there's a difference between versions pc and ps1

the pc is up to date however the ps1 version is way outdated has never been updated since 98 or 99
What do want to say to us with this post? And how should this help us rebalancing the campaign?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 16 Jun 2018, 23:14

WZ2100ModsFAn wrote:post Irrelevant to topic?
That depends on what do you want to say to us. I see no benefit for rebalancing the game in a video with an outdated ps1 version of warzone. Bethrezen has version 1.10 (me too but I never played it until now) so we can easily make a comparison with the settings from the original version.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 16 Jun 2018, 23:15

O_o Y'all had quite the discussion there.

Lets try this. Moved light-cannon to Alpha 4 and allow up to two damage researches. Mortar gets one. Flamer damage 3 moved to Alpha 5 where light-cannon was since it is much more rewarding that the previous ones. New assembly for south scavenger base in Alpha 5 which now attack, not compromise.

Flamer I am hesitant to make it even decent against hard structures. Otherwise it is only somewhat weak to half-tracks and tracks. The third flamer damage makes flamer somewhat more useful against those New Paradigm units, but not a lot.

Light cannon seems to do well enough against the New Paradigm unit although probably could do better against hard structures. Hmm.

Well, I will let everybody discuss this revision of the mod next. Just know the Alpha 5 tech tree is not final and I will probably move the Medium-cannon somewhere into Alpha 6.
camBalance.wz

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 16 Jun 2018, 23:58

Berserk Cyborg wrote: Well, I will let everybody discuss this revision of the mod next. Just know the Alpha 5 tech tree is not final and I will probably move the Medium-cannon somewhere into Alpha 6.
bad idea we need the medium cannon to fight off the heavy cannon new paradigm units

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 17 Jun 2018, 01:15

Edit: WZ2100ModsFan asked (again) for deactivating his account. So I deleted the question I asked here before because I think I won't get an answer any more

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 17 Jun 2018, 12:04

I tried to reload saved games with the latest camBalance mod and failed. First, the game gave me the message that the mod can't be loaded and it will go back to the main menu. Then I got the message that the file is an unsupported format or corrupted. Logs and saved games are added.

I got my calculation completed and based on your ideas I suggest the following values for damage and ROF for the cannons and staggering the damage upgrades:

Light cannon
Damage: from 40 down to 20
firePause: from 40 down to 10 (=ROF of 60 instead of 15)

Medium cannon
Damage: from 60 down to 40
firePause: from 45 down to 20 (=ROF of 30 instead of 13)

Heavy cannon
Damage: from 90 down to 80
firePause: from 50 down to 40 (=ROF of 15 instead of 12)

This will give all three cannon the theoretical same damage per minute of 1200 but because of the armour of the enemies, the real damage is different. For example an enemy with an armour of 12 (Scorpion body with no armour upgrades). I ignore the weaponmodifier because it's the same for all three weapons and makes no difference for the result but makes the calculation more complicated.
Damage per minute = (Base damage - enemy armour) x ROF

Light cannon:
(20 - 12) x 60 = 480

Medium cannon
(40 - 12 ) x 30 = 840

Heavy cannon
(80 - 12) x 15 = 1020

Alpha 04: Giving the light cannon one or two damage upgrades. My first idea was to give the second damage upgrade in the scavenger factory as an artifact during alpha 05 but I'm not sure if it's better to give it during alpha 04. Giving one mortar damage upgrade.

Alpha 05: No upgrades for cannons or mortars.

Alpha 06: Second damage upgrade for the mortar, first damage upgrade for the lancer. With my new calculation, I now suggest leaving the base damage for the lancer at 120. Otherwise, it would be underpowered in comparison with the cannons. Edit: Giving the medium cannon at the same time as the lancer.

Alpha 08: Third damage upgrade for the cannons and the mortar, second damage upgrade for the lancer.

Alpha 11: Third damage upgrade for the lancer.

Maybe it's necessary to do again some changes in beta 01 with damage upgrades but this can wait until we are there with balancing and depends also if you agree with my suggested changes.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 17 Jun 2018, 13:25

alfred007 wrote:Edit: WZ2100ModsFan asked (again) for deactivating his account. So I deleted the question I asked here before because I think I won't get an answer any more
can't now

viewtopic.php?f=3&p=141521#p141521

you can quote my signature now...

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 17 Jun 2018, 14:27

WZ2100ModsFAn wrote:
Berserk Cyborg wrote: Well, I will let everybody discuss this revision of the mod next. Just know the Alpha 5 tech tree is not final and I will probably move the Medium-cannon somewhere into Alpha 6.
bad idea we need the medium cannon to fight off the heavy cannon new paradigm units
WZ2100ModsFAn wrote: can't now

viewtopic.php?f=3&p=141521#p141521

you can quote my signature now...
All right, then again.

The first time the NP uses heavy cannons is in alpha 10. So where is the problem if you get the medium cannon in alpha 06 instead of in alpha 05?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 17 Jun 2018, 16:48

alfred007 wrote:I tried to reload saved games with the latest camBalance mod and failed. First, the game gave me the message that the mod can't be loaded and it will go back to the main menu. Then I got the message that the file is an unsupported format or corrupted. Logs and saved games are added.
Both load for me. No idea why though sometimes it fails to load stat components for whatever reason, especially with this mod. So try reloading a few times (also the save on Alpha 3 tries to find "camBalance0706.wz"). Or just get to pre-away Alpha 4 without the latest mod, save, and try reloading with the latest mod again.

If you get any more interesting log output you can upload logs to #4797 to further document this.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 17 Jun 2018, 19:15

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
alfred007 wrote:I tried to reload saved games with the latest camBalance mod and failed. First, the game gave me the message that the mod can't be loaded and it will go back to the main menu. Then I got the message that the file is an unsupported format or corrupted. Logs and saved games are added.
Both load for me. No idea why though sometimes it fails to load stat components for whatever reason, especially with this mod. So try reloading a few times (also the save on Alpha 3 tries to find "camBalance0706.wz"). Or just get to pre-away Alpha 4 without the latest mod, save, and try reloading with the latest mod again.

If you get any more interesting log output you can upload logs to #4797 to further document this.
I have no idea what is going on. I removed all mods from the mod folder and the subfolders. Then I started warzone and tried to reload the game. Same problem. Not even after I restarted my computer I could load the saved game. Also not the pre-away saved game from alpha 04. The only thing that helped was that I renamed the camBalance mod into camBanlance0706, put it into the autoload folder and could start the game.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by pastdue » 19 Jun 2018, 02:30

alfred007 wrote:I have no idea what is going on. I removed all mods from the mod folder and the subfolders. Then I started warzone and tried to reload the game. Same problem. Not even after I restarted my computer I could load the saved game. Also not the pre-away saved game from alpha 04. The only thing that helped was that I renamed the camBalance mod into camBanlance0706, put it into the autoload folder and could start the game.
If you switch your system language to English (and/or switch Warzone's language to English), do you experience the exact same results?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 19 Jun 2018, 09:23

pastdue wrote:
alfred007 wrote:I have no idea what is going on. I removed all mods from the mod folder and the subfolders. Then I started warzone and tried to reload the game. Same problem. Not even after I restarted my computer I could load the saved game. Also not the pre-away saved game from alpha 04. The only thing that helped was that I renamed the camBalance mod into camBanlance0706, put it into the autoload folder and could start the game.
If you switch your system language to English (and/or switch Warzone's language to English), do you experience the exact same results?
Yes. I changed the language to English, quit the game, restarted it and got the same result. The log file is added.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 19 Jun 2018, 20:38

I agree that there is a problem with my logic. When we look how the level works we can see that the southern garrison attacks you as soon as the northern scavenger base is destroyed.
Actually this isn’t accurate the second scav base seems to activate as soon as the default one does so if I move to here for example

Image

Take out the scav's and then move into the triggers zone that activates the default scav base and the new scav base when really it should only activate the default scav base.

the same should hold true of if i attack the new scav base first only the new scav base should activate as that's the one that got attacked, if however i attack the new paradigm first then both scav bases should activate.
So I suggest activating the southern factory after the northern scavenger base is destroyed or the player attacks the NP. After the garrison left the southern base there is also no more problem that the produced units in the southern factory can be stuck. So I would also say we define an assembly at the northern exit of the southern base and change their order from CAM_ORDER_COMPROMISE to CAM_ORDER_ATTACK
While I get where you are coming from the issue with that is that there's a chance its going to interfere when you are trying to get set up to take on the new paradigm garrison.

I don't know how you do this but personally what i normally do is

1.) recycle all my units then rebuild, squad 1 as half track heavy machine guns along with 2 repair units load up and set 18 mortars and 2 scanners to build then take off.

2.) move to the little hill in the screen shot above and take out the scav's there activate reinforcements I'll then call in my other 10 half track heavy machine guns.

3.) while i wait for reinforcements i'll send 2 of my half track heavy machine guns at my LZ to guard it from the units that are now coming from the default scav base now normally they will be down to yellow/red by the time the rest of squad 1 arrive but they will survive just, and while I'm waiting on them I'll have the remainder of my landing party move south and deal with the detachment of scav's that are to the south of the landing zone, by the time that's done the rest of squad 1 should be arriving and my initial landing party will be moving north to meet up with them.

4.) once the rest of squad 1 arrives I'll call in 9 mortars and a scanner which have been building while I've been doing the opening parts of the level.

5.) once squad 1 is fully operational and have been repaired I'll take squad 1 to the east and I'll take out the the scav base there get the light cannon artefact of course I'll be careful not to attack the new paradigm base yet since I'm not ready.

6.) once the default scav base is down I'll start researching the light cannon artefact then I'll fall back and wait for my mortars to arrive once the first half of squad 2 arrive I'll attach them to the scanner set them to hold fire and I'll move them in to position on the hill above my heavy machine-guns and I'll call in the other 9 mortars and the other scanner.

once they arrive I'll set them to hold fire as well and I'll move them into position as well, when all my mortars are in position I'll set the mortars to fire at will which will cause them to fire on the the new paradigm base which will trigger the FMV and activate new paradigm garrison, and cause them to come and attack my mortars of course this is a trap and they can't actually get to my mortars because my heavy machine-guns are guarding the ramp which results in there garrison taking the fire from 36 units which results in most of there garrison getting destroyed, some of them might make it back for repair but as long as I get most of them that's usually enough that i can push forward and start the process of braking into there base and then when there base is down its just a case of waiting on research doing.

now as a already mentioned if the second scav base activates when you destroy the first then that might actually cause problems while you are trying to get set up to ambush the new paradigm garrison, although I'm not opposed to the idea of trying it out to see how things play.

Of course setting up an ambush for the new paradigm garrison is only 1 way to do this you could try taking them head on using 1 squad of heavy machine-guns and 1 squad of light cannons but for this to be a practical option really you would need to get the light cannon artefact on alpha 4 otherwise that's is going to result in you sitting round for a long time while you build and transport your light cannons

You could just use heavy machine-guns but having tried this already its not a wise move because they just aren't tough enough and take to long to deal with the new paradigms heavier units

so for the time being my way seems to be the safest and most effective way to deal with the new paradigm garrison, its also the easiest way to get past there turrets since flamers currently have little to no effect on there turrets due to the fact that the modifier against hard targets is to low.

although i notice that there is a new version of the mod now so this might change depending on how things play out although i can still see players needing at least 2 squads to deal with the new paradigm so that you can kill them fast enough that you don't start taking casualties, because obviously viper units even on half tracks are still quiet vulnerable.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 19 Jun 2018, 21:04

Flamer I am hesitant to make it even decent against hard structures. Otherwise it is only somewhat weak to half-tracks and tracks. The third flamer damage makes flamer somewhat more useful against those New Paradigm units, but not a lot.
What about making the modifier for flamers the same as it is for heavy machineguns ? it's enough that its actually going to do some damage but its still going to be slower than using say mortars which are specifically designed for the task of taking out enemy turrets.
Light cannon seems to do well enough against the New Paradigm unit although probably could do better against hard structures. Hmm.

Well, I will let everybody discuss this revision of the mod next. Just know the Alpha 5 tech tree is not final and I will probably move the Medium-cannon somewhere into Alpha 6.
If you are going to move the medium cannon to alpha 06 does that also mean you are going to move the second damage upgrade as well?

The reason I ask is that with machine guns we gave 1 damage upgrade with mk 1 machine guns 1 damage upgrade with twin machineguns and the third with heavy machine guns so it makes sense to follow the same pattern from cannons

1 damage upgrade with light cannons 1 damage upgrade with medium cannon and 1 with heavy cannon, of course that may well leave the light cannon slightly underpowered, so I'm not sure how that would play out something worth thinking about anyway.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 19 Jun 2018, 21:09

alfred007 wrote:
pastdue wrote:
alfred007 wrote:I have no idea what is going on. I removed all mods from the mod folder and the subfolders. Then I started warzone and tried to reload the game. Same problem. Not even after I restarted my computer I could load the saved game. Also not the pre-away saved game from alpha 04. The only thing that helped was that I renamed the camBalance mod into camBanlance0706, put it into the autoload folder and could start the game.
If you switch your system language to English (and/or switch Warzone's language to English), do you experience the exact same results?
Yes. I changed the language to English, quit the game, restarted it and got the same result. The log file is added.
well i see your problem it's probally this weapon Bad component BabaBuggyTwinMG

that's suddenly causing problems it means that bababuggytwinmg is missing

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