Map generation

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raycast
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Map generation

Post by raycast » 12 Sep 2012, 19:32

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Iluvalar
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Re: Map generation

Post by Iluvalar » 12 Sep 2012, 21:29

That's a very interesting idea for now, but I believe you have one major flaw : Playable maps are around 128x128 - 196x196 size. And you ABSOLUTELY need to have chokepoints bigger than 3 tiles wide. Otherwise you will have huge imbalance and pathfinding problems.

So your 512x512 image with 1pixel paths will simply not do it...

You might also be very interested by this topic : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9819 (21 tile rule) to generate maps that actually meet the standards
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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 13 Sep 2012, 14:36

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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 14 Sep 2012, 10:54

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Re: Map generation

Post by Trash » 21 Sep 2012, 02:48

After downloading I gave it a try because I am loving the idea of a map generator. I can imagine creating random maps is hard or even impossible but this is getting closer it seems. Although I am not sure of gameplay being balanced the first hour spending with is was great. Unfortunately I finally got slaughtered, but better luck next time (not now in the middle of the night).

Guess I will be exploring (a lot) more the upcoming days and of course change starting positions too to check if that alters the game totally. So far so good, looks VERY promising I'd say... WTG!

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Zi-Chan
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Re: Map generation

Post by Zi-Chan » 29 Sep 2012, 04:29

Please continue this. I would love to see this some day included inside the game to be able randomly create maps directly inside the game at the create game-screen. Other players wouldn't even have to download the map from the player (since it's no .wz-file) but just grab the parameters of the chosen map.

@Devs: Look into this. Is it possible to include a random map maker inside the game? :)
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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 29 Sep 2012, 16:46

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NoQ
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Re: Map generation

Post by NoQ » 29 Sep 2012, 19:54

Plus, the AI might need some hints by the user on where to setup defenses etc.
This is hard to implement once the heightmap is already present, but it may be much easier to implement if those gateways are placed before actually generating a map (that is, the algorithm thinks of the gateway layout prior to producing the actual heightmap). Not sure what Flail13's generator does about that, but as far as i remember he did gateways ... did you check out how it works? Then the same "idea" could probably be used for map balancing, cause gateways are not placed in certain spots simply because AIs need at least something, but because these places actually make some sense.

Anyway, i think i didn't praise your work yet, while it's worth it ... i'm surprised how you managed to catch the atmosphere with your generated maps. The example you provided looks similar to the 8c-MizaMaze built-in map, which is something i couldn't achieve yet even manually (i still have no idea how to make a map that looks like that lol). It could probably be nice if you shared the code you use or something like that.

Also, last time i checked, it's not very hard to implement a built-in map generator for the game; in fact i managed to implement it while testing some of my little terrain rendering work (it didn't do anything interesting, just put random heights and textures, but it was a proof of concept; not sure about the gui part though). If it works quickly enough (and we're talking about a c++ code), it could be made.

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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 30 Sep 2012, 10:46

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Iluvalar
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Re: Map generation

Post by Iluvalar » 30 Sep 2012, 16:56

I believe you can find chokepoints by running some sort of shockwave algorythm that start from oils.
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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 04 Oct 2012, 19:35

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duda
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Re: Map generation

Post by duda » 06 Oct 2012, 03:05

hi raycast

i saved your pics in my mapmaking-inspiration-folder 8-)
maybe in some days i make a playable map with some elements of your heightmap pics,
because i like the shape of mountain-tops - but they really need a lot of changes/manipulation to make it a playable heightmap
"unit is under attack!", "unit is under attack!", unit is under attack!" then i wake up ... (true story)

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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 11 Oct 2012, 03:54

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Re: Map generation

Post by raycast » 11 Oct 2012, 03:58

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Re: Map generation

Post by aubergine » 12 Oct 2012, 01:17

Kudos, dude, this is full of potential!

Regarding choke points, IMHO they matter most early in the game. Later in the game a bunch of arty/missiles and some well placed sensors start to deprecate the importance of choke points from a defence structure perspective, although having plenty of choke points makes land battles nice and interesting :)

From what you've written here and elsewhere, it sounds like your WZ gameplay style is very similar to mine - skirmish and waiting until heavy tech lead before going on the offensive. On that basis, may I suggest a map to look at? One of my favourite maps, 4c-Freezing by NoQ, might be worth a look for some inspiration of things to consider in your map gen. There are los of areas surrounded by cliffs, with bases on raised ground in the 4 corners. When fighting land battles, units end up creeping round the edges of cliffs until they enter a new part of a valley and all hell breaks loose. There are also lots of nooks and crannies where a sneaky sensor tower or seraph missile can be placed for maximum effect. The bases each have two entrances that can quickly be walled off, and many of the oil resources can easily be walled as well (except those where the scavengers live). Much of the mountain region around the bases is accessible only by VTOL/transport, a great place to build AA/arty/missiles or even vtol pads if you can get there and want to save space in the main base area. Another thing is that the whole map has a border of mountains - this makes it particularly picturesque.
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