FlaME -- The Warzone 2100 Map Editor

[vexed]

You should always have gateways. Those are used to help the AI out on where to build things and other important stuff it does.

I never make gateways. You should make them in a low oil map usually, but in high oil maps like NTW, not so much.

Wrong, you should ALWAYS make them.
That is a big reason why some maps play much, much slower than other maps with well designed gateways.

[Merowingg]

Ah yes the gatways.. I have never used one.. please remind me how does they work, I mean when i make line of eight squares like that.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

where will be the passage in gateway ?? how I put passage in appropriate for me place? i do simething like that ??

_ _ _ _ 000000 _ _ _ _ simply ?? where all "000000" are squares where i dint put the gateway ?? and what more should I know ?? I would like someone to revise me, in great details, as for some something is obvious but for others do not have to be..

Bye

[Per]

Wrong, you should ALWAYS make them.
That is a big reason why some maps play much, much slower than other maps with well designed gateways.

Gateways have no impact on game performance. They are only used for AI hints these days.

[zany]

in the map making tutorial it says they are needed.

Now that you have determined the lay of the land and the terrain types (water, land, cliff face, etc.), it is time to decide where to place the routing gateways in order to expedite traffic between zones. Enlarge the lower right window by grabbing the bar between it and the upper window, and dragging the bar upwards while holding the left mouse button down. If you have an edge brush selected, this window will be showing the edge brush set rather than the map.
To change to the map view, go to the view menu and select world , or you can hit the F2 key. To move around your map in this window you can use the arrow keys on the keyboard, or point to an area in the mini-map, which located in the upper left part of the window. Clicking on the mini-map instantly moves your view to that spot on the map.


To add a gateway to a narrow gap between mountains on your map, click on the button labeled Gt at the top of EditWorld. Now you can place gateways on the map in the lower right-hand window. Left-click once where you would like the gateway opening to start (for example at the left side of the narrow gap at the entrance to a base), and then right-click where you would like the gateway to end.


Gateways must be at least two tiles wide, and I recommend three or four tiles at least to prevent vehicle bunch-ups. The best way to discuss routing gateways is with an example. Let's say you've created a map where each base is ringed by impassable mountains, and has only one narrow opening. You would put a routing gateway at the narrowest point of the entrance to each base. Notice the yellow lines? These are the gateway placements on the map. The different gray areas each represent a separate gateway. If you look closely, you can see two areas that have a gateway that doesn't create a new zone. These gateways are there so that you can use the high areas on the map with out the need for ramps. To the right you will see what the map looks like in normal viewing on the 3d map.
2d map view normal gateway diagram gt option 2d map view

Keep in mind that you can only lay down gateways in either horizontal or vertical lines. That is, you can not have diagonally oriented gateways. So when making a map, try to play-test the game to see if they're working properly. Under the Map menu there is an option called Refresh Zones . This updates the map after you have added gateways. What will happen after placing gateways and using the Refresh Zones option, is that each area of the board separated by gateways is assigned a unique number.
Complex maps with make the gaps between areas so that they face either north-south, or east- west. This way you can make a vertical or horizontal gateway at each major choke-point on the map. You will have to play around with gateways, and then 8 bases and water areas can end up with 30 or more numbered zones. These are separated by mountains, water, and other movement limiting textures, with gateways designating the passable routes for ground vehicles to move between the numbered zones. If your map does not have any gateways it will not compile and you will not get a functional map. Every map must have at least one gateway. Good maps will have a significant number of gateways strategically placed at the narrowing between zones.

I tried both with and without and the AI is dumb without

[Mysteryem]

You do realise that guide is 5 years old, right? So it's no suprise that it's a little outdated in some areas. Still significant for much older versions, but as has been said already, gateways are no longer used for pathing by the ai. For NEXUS ai, they give hints about where to build defenses. The ai will build hardpoints on all of the tiles of the gateway, except the inner 2.

[Flail13]

With the later versions of flaME, why does importing a heightmap create a new blank map with that heightmap applied, as opposed to applying the heightmap to the currently open map? It seems counterproductive to me.

It also resizes the map to the dimensions of the heightmap, vs. scaling the heightmap to match.

If it opens it as a new map you can be sure the map and heightmap are the same size, and you can copy it to wherever you want it. Though, I understand that this is slower. I'll think about making it an option.
effigy, why would you want the editor to scale heightmaps? Isn't that what GIMP/imaging programs are for?

Looks like we need more error checking in FLaME.
For starters, it seems to allow placing things too close to the edge of the map.
Also, you need to make sure they have gateways on the map, since on some maps people don't have any and this really screws things up with the AI routines.

If I prevent objects at the edges, how many tiles should be blocked? Was it intentional that 3.1 only blocks 2 tiles at the top/left, while blocking 3 at the bottom/right?
Is there consensus that we don't need gateways?
Is there any other error checking needed?

bendib,
Import copied segment turned into open and copy
This is so I have less duplicate things to maintain.
IIRC, HQs and standard trucks were required for the game to work properly.

[Berg]

Is there consensus that we don't need gateways?

Might be best to double check about gateways I think they are needed for AI to use

[NoQ]

Is there consensus that we don't need gateways?

Might be best to double check about gateways I think they are needed for AI to use

Therefore, this boils down to wether we need an AI (:

Cause many map makers assume that their maps are made for human vs. human matches only and never care about AIs (including me, apart from some single-player maps, though i usually put gateways anyway).

[Berg]

Cause many map makers assume that their maps are made for human vs. human matches only and never care about AIs (including me

I know many folks that like to play multi player comp stomp..
This is always the thing I find hard to believe just because people like to play a certain way they assume their way is the only way...
We have plenty of variation why delete some of them.

[NoQ]

I know many folks that like to play multi player comp stomp..

That's why i said "human vs. human matches" instead of "multiplayer games".

they assume their way is the only way...

They don't. They simply don't spend their valuable efforts on supporting the other ways. I like playing chess and i don't play much football, so i won't spend my money on a football match ticket, but this doesn't mean i assume that playing chess is the only way. Why would a player who never ever played with advanced bases waste 20 minutes to set up advanced bases? Only for making the map go higher in the addons, i think (:

[Berg]

Why would a player who never ever played with advanced bases waste 20 minutes to set up advanced bases? Only for making the map go higher in the addons, i think (:

I see your meaning but we are not talking about playing chess to football all good and well what you like ...what I'm saying is dont limit the options to only what the map maker wants leave gate ways in

Is there consensus that we don't need gateways?

This is what the question was and what I answer.

Do not delete options for maps

[Rman Virgil]

.

Is there consensus that we don't need gateways?

Do not delete options for maps

+ 1

I find it worthwhile to make maps specific to all possible audience tastes.

When I had access to WZ audience statistics (for years and when the number of MPers was far greater than it's ever been since) the number of peeps who favored playing with A.I.s was at least the equal of those who not so much. Don't see any reasons why that pattern of preferences should be different now.

In fact I have recently suggested going a step further in PF / Ai optimizing by implementing Navigation Meshes which would involve changes to both the game source and FlaMe. There was zero response to my 2 postings so I'm not sure if I conveyed the proposition with enough clarity to be understood... But that's neither here nor there.

- Regards, RV.

[NoQ]

Well, i think i misunderstood something Banning the gateways is certainly a bad idea.

[Per]

Is there consensus that we don't need gateways?

While you don't need gateways, at least some AIs are handicapped without them. So I would strongly recommend having them.

[effigy]

@Flail: yes, there's plenty of editors to size down the heightmaps... I thought old flame versions did this. Maybe I'm mistaken?