Discussion - what do YOU like in a map?

[Doomspark]

Obviously different people like different things in maps. Style of play and type of game also affect map choices. A map that's fun to play against the AI might stink when playing against live opponents. So - what makes a good map?

I play skirmishes against the AI almost all the time. That said, here's what I like in maps:

1. Variety in starting positions. On most maps, the various starting positions are pretty much identical.
2. Sufficient oil resources such that I'm not constantly having to stop researching / building.
3. Big maps, with lots of usable terrain. A big map isn't interesting to me if it's mostly water.
4. Textures are painted carefully, with minimal obvious tile-joins. Well-done custom textures are a plus.
5. Minimal bottlenecks. I really get annoyed when my units get jammed up on each other.
6. Reasonably intelligent AI pathing.

What do you folks like?

[Berg]

I like maps with limited oil 4 in the base max.
If the question was what i would like ..the answer is random oil.
Huge maps best.
lots of pathways with lots of ambush spots
Varied terrain.
I also make maps with no overland paths to enemy bases forcing you to establish a beach head on their base if the land their base is on is limited then they will see you and counter.
Thats good fun
Of course these types of maps are not for the AI it will have a brain fart.
Many players prefer different to me but if forced to think economics before you can attack it adds more thought to the game.

[3drts]

Personally, my favorite default map was Bananas, and maybe Manhattan (but Bannanas wins just because I like the tile-set better)
So that should sort of tell you about what I like in a map

1) I think identical starting positions are good for Multiplayer maps - Symmetry is fair

2) I can see value to High and low power outputs, but I think there should be enough oil for at least 3 power Generators to be going for each player (ie 12 oil per player) - the low, med, high power output settings add versatility and allow a map to be fun to a greater variety of players - so the question is, how many specific spots are fun to fight over?

3) Define "mostly water" i think Islands/ continents, peninsulas, rivers, can be fun, on island maps or continents (what I like to call two main landmasses separated by a large enough stretch of water that you can't shoot across without Howitzers) - water may very well make up 50 percent of the map.
If it is just a huge map with bases in each corner, and an open expanse of water.... boring.

I think enough water to make hover tanks more desirable for their amphibious capabilities rather than just speed, is desirable.

I do like the concept of setting up beachheads (like on manhatten), but it doesn't play well in Skirmish, and I also like the chokepoints a land bridge/isthmus creates (that can by bypasses by the hovers - adds strategic depth to the game)

This shows in the map I made several months ago, with a landmass ringing a "lake" with a central island (like a lake that forms in a volcanic crater), and 4 smaller islands in the lake (ok, I have no geologic justification for those)

4) Agreed, I spend a lot of time on that on the maps I did (now if only someone who has them could send them to me, since they are on my old computer, 9,000 km away

5) Define "minimal" I dislike starting in an open plain, I like having only a few entrances to seal off, most of my map ideas involve a ring of mountains around the immediate base area, and at least one chokepoint before you get to the enemies "mountain ring"
Water makes for good bottlenecks, as if it really annoys you- use hovers.

[KenAlcock]

1. Huge maps, the bigger the map, the better the map. I hate tiny maps. I wish Warzone could facilitate even bigger maps, but understand there are a few technical limitations.
2. Interesting terrain features. Flat maps are unrealistic, boring, and do not force or allow players to make use of terrain.
3. I enjoy water maps only if there is room enough to build base buildings and defenses (see minimum base structure requirements below). However, the standard AI is completely useless on water maps and his land-based tanks always get stuck on his own beach because he can't figure out that he needs hover units.
4. Starting position base area variety, so long as all other base area criteria are met.
5. Starting positions large enough to build minimum base structures in (or on) the base area proper:
   1. One Command Center
   2. Three large factories (which could include VTOL Factories)
   3. Two Cyborg factories
   4. Three Research Facilities
   5. Two Power Generators
   6. Reasonable defenses around all buildings and oil derricks with room to maneuver units between everything.
6. All oil resources laid out on map such that they can be defended on all four sides with a wall (or man-made walls on some sides and natural terrain walls on others). No oil resources should be in or too close to map margins, where you cannot build on the oil itself or build a defense around the oil. (Mobile units can always use map margin tiles, but you can't build structures there.)
7. Oil dispersion:
   1. For human multiplayer maps, an equal number of oil resources in and around (say within sensor range) of each main base area.
   2. For Human vs AI maps (like 8c-AI-Assault) the oil need not be equal for each team.
   3. Medium oil resources. I prefer 4-8 oil resources inside of main base area, another 4 immediately outside and near main base area (within sensor range), and the rest of the oil randomly scattered across the map with different interesting terrain features at each location to provoke lots of different little battles over power and strategic positions.
8. Attention-to-detail when it comes to diagonal pathways and base area edges. There are some good looking maps out there that play horribly because diagonal pathways and build-able base area edges are not wide enough and do not use enough adjoining tiles--the tile texture colors suggest that some tiles should be passable or build-able, but in practice they are not.
9. Strategic terrain bottlenecks and passes that are at least 2 tiles wide if aligned to the 4 main compass points, and wider if they are diagonally aligned (to prevent AI pathfinding errors). If strategic terrain bottlenecks are more narrow, units will get locked up.
10. Maps that don't force VTOLs to fly the slow wheelie maneuver and get shot to hell.

My favorite 4-Player Maps:

• 4c-Rolling Hills. This map has lots of room and interesting terrain. It could use just a little more oil.
• 4c-Basingstoke. This map has the highest elevation of any I have played. Interestingly, VTOLs flying over the huge mountain in the middle do not fly the slow wheelie maneuver.
• 4c-Memonia4. This map has lots of interesting terrain.

My favorite 8-Player Maps:

• 8c-The Pit. This map is just beautiful. Ample defend-able base areas, moderate oil. Oil spread out to fight over.
• 8c-AI-Assault. This survival map is designed exclusively for multi-player human team vs AI team play, and it totally rocks! Players must learn to: work together, manage and share power resources, and build strategic defenses quickly, or they will not survive this map.
• 8c-Clutch (Seton's Clutch). Lots of strategic terrain and a refreshing break from maps with bases laid out like a wheel. Best used in multi-player human team vs human team play.
• 8c-CloverRush - Think of the default 4c-Rush map combined with 8c-Clover, but with perfect map balance (unlike 8c-Clover).

[DarkCheetah]

i like to play co-op against a unkown powerfull super strong turtling fortified ai!! 8D

and against a ai , wich runs a ai script on the depending map, a map that fits a mod so it combines, reffering to on of the campaign missions, the ai gets spawns and landings, i like to defend against that!!

i also like to build my base, and i wish the research went something slower, becuase you cannot experience with the lower rank of tanks (cobra body's....) untill then you got panther already, same with structures and weaps

[Olrox]

First of all, the map must not be symmetrical, I simply don't play those. There shouldn't be too many oil resources, a good ammount for me is 4 in the starting position, 2 right outside each player's bases and an additional 2 scattered across the map for each player.

An interesting concept, with which only a very very few maps work with, but that I think amazing, is additional, unnocupied base spaces. It's something that makes for more interesting games, where planning the strikes is really a must. It usually allows the defending player to see what he's dealing with when attacked in one base, and if the one base is destroyed, he can use his balancing knowledge to strengthen his defenses in the right way.

Another thing that is nice to see on maps are base slots with one tight entrance and another big one, the tight passage being sort of behind the base. By saying that, I mean bases with cliffs around it, of course!

[Dalton]

I am basically opposite of Olrox I like 30 oil in base and like maps to be symmetrical. Where all bases same design. Like it if there is a wall around base, and if the base can be defended from all types of attacks. Also good if there is space betweens bases to prevent ripple wars from base to base.

[KukY]

I like big maps, at least 160x160, 250x250 is ideal, with totaly diffrent bases.
About oil, I hate ones where you start with just 4 oil, and you can't get more than 4 other oil without getting into othr players base. But I don't like too much oil, 12 in a base is enough, and more groups of 4 oil outside of bases on isolated areas(islands,Scavangers protected,high cliffs that can only be accesed by using VTOLs...).
Bases should be surrounded by earth wall, that is accesible from your base and at least 2 tiles wide so you can build defenses on it.Big main gate and a small emergency exit are good, but only main gete is enough.
About features, I like for a map to have lot of them, but not maps completely filled with ruined buildings you have to destroy to have a normal play. And I like for them to be placed with some logic. F.e. place power towers next ot roads, in a group place few diffrent sized buildings and cranes(That are supposed to work on those buildings...).

[Saberuneko]

I like Medium-Big maps, the small ones are just a little boring, I like the usual 4 oil-derricks in base, for forcing the players to fight if they want more resources. Water is cool, but some bridges between islands are cool too ^^. I love moderated bottlenecks (not very small), deploying defences there is always a good idea.
I both like simetric and non-simetric maps, if both just keep fair with all players (no disadvantages for any).
What usually makes me confused are mazey maps... I just get lost

[wari]

Big maps are best, you can set up staging areas, use pronged attacks, defend remote oil resources. Would love to see another sea based map, with each base on a different island.

[3drts]

The problem with sea based maps, is that unlike other games which invariably have transports, you would have no way of getting tanks from one island to another - there would be almost zero point in making any vehicle that wasn't hover or VTOL- if the island isn't tiny, and not surrounded on three sides by cliffs, attacking hovercraft will just circle around and attack where ever the tanks are not.
But if we make "continents" like you see on Civilization IV games- ie 1-3 Very large islands (I'm thinking the map size would be as big as "the Pit", with 3-5 enemies (ok, I know WZ only supports players total, unlike Civ which supports like 12 or 16) - such that your first priority is establishing dominion on your continent (with wheeled, and tracked vehicles) - before undertaking a trek across the seas (again, in Civ, it is different- you can more easily achieve a stable peace with other occupants of your island, and turn your attention across the seas.

Really large islands make it feasable to set up factories and make tracked units - smallish islands... if you can clear the space to make a factory, you can just as easily clear the whole island.

I am unsure if the spacing between "continents" should be sufficient to make artillery on one continent ineffective against another- maybe archangels would barely be able to reach the coast of one, if placed on the cost of another.

I like the idea of having to move a naval (ie hover) force off the coast, to begin bombardment (hellstorm+groundshaker hovers *drools*).

If we had more island maps, we might actually get those water-only "boat" propulsions (like tracked units of the sea?) included into the game - I know I've seen them in mods. Just as VTOLs have their own factory type, ships could have a "shipyard" instead of a factory, and "drydocks" instead of repair facilities/vtol pads.

But until maps are made with more water, such changes would be a lot of work for nothing.