"War School"-A Map/Mod W.I.P.-locked sticky

[whippersnapper]

Question: I probably missed it, but is there an expected release date for this map/mod? because it looks amazing, and sounds really fun.

Even in its present Alpha it's playable and fun - to me anyway and my LAN testing comrades.

I have not posted a release date but right now I can forecast Q 1, 2010. That is taking a heavy professional workload over the next few months into account as well the downtown for holiday festivities - Halloween, Thanskgiving, X-Mas & New Years.. & my travels associated with those..

also: it kinda seems like you are just using Warzone 2100 to run a "separate" game, due to all the mods you are putting in there.

Cheers, Yamar

You are the first person to hit the nail on the head with that perception-statement. That is exactly what I'm doing.

It's a ton of work but not nearly as much as would be involved even if used a state of the art game engine and all its available assets- I would still have to write base code (which for me is the equivalent of picking cotton in 100 + degree weather) and create all the UIs & supportiive A.I., among many other fundamental tasks. Going that route would truly take me forever to do what I'm doing here using the WZ base as my platform & totally eliminating the need to do real fundamentals like writing my own PF code (been there, done that). Instead I'm going to higher level creation directly where my true fortes, passions, vision and satisfaction reside.

"War School" is in reality also my "swan song" to WZ and a decade long engagement that started joyously with Pumpkin, WZ Creators themselves and their retail community, in what seems in hindesight like a whole other life time ago.

It is also my secret hope that WS will set an over all benchmark of RTS innovation in the service of "Deep Fun" few will aspire to let alone ever achieve - at least on this amateur level.

We'll see how it all works out in the end.

Regards, whip

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[Zarel]

Even in its present Alpha it's playable and fun - to me anyway and my LAN testing comrades.

I have not posted a release date but right now I can forecast Q 1, 2010. That is taking a heavy professional workload over the next few months into account as well the downtown for holiday festivities - Halloween, Thanskgiving, X-Mas & New Years.. & my travels associated with those..

Why not release the alpha, then? I'm sure the forum would love it.

[whippersnapper]

Why not release the alpha, then? I'm sure the forum would love it.

Hmmm. It is definitely playable because of my modus and it is novel fun, no doubt. That said - it has yet to attain the goals I set for myself which simply put are this; deep fun & lasting replay-value based on expanded tac & strat opportunities, including asymmetric warfare, that are not susceptible to walk-thru deconstruction in Ski vs the A.I or MP with all humans. Plus all the wonderful new art assets integrated into those expanded GPMs.

To release now, when I am only about 50% solid with those goals, would be to dilute the whole project - plus other negative consequences there's no need to spell-out.

I'm sure you can relate to this process: I implement a change or component... it doesn't CTD... I document... I play-test in Ski with my modified BP.... tweak.... re-document... now it goes to LAN play-testing.... I get feedback.... tweak-make changes.... re-document.... re-test in LAN.... and so on.. That meticulous documenting is essential to my not getting lost in how I'm doing stuff and also time consumeing. Plus when WS is released there will be a few folks that will wanna rip it apart to use assets but also figure out how I did this, that and the other - without my documenting those folks would never be able to spend enough time to sort it all out.... but with my documentation in hand it will make the analytic process way painless and not at all a tiresome drudgery like it would be without my meticulous documenting. My documents will also by implication provide clues to how to fully utilize certain GPMs that peeps otherwise would have to stumble upon or not realize at all which would place them at a distinct disadvantage with folks more daring in their explorations.... not to mention, once understood these GPMs are a source of deep satisfaction when utilized.

Putting new eye candy in the game, text-editing, map-making and even scripting are not inherently hard in themselves, especially with my familiarity, experience and knowledge of the games more subtle workings.... however.... that integration process I just described in the previous paragraph is incredibly time-consuming.... and I won't go forward with the next succeeding implementation until I'm all green-lighted with the current integration. That is what makes WS playable every step of the way and also me be able to manage each trial and error alternate modification matrix.

There's also new GFX & SFX & Music & a FMV / Cinematic in the pipeline that are not done yet and add so much to the overall experience I don't wanna essentially give them the axe with a release at this time..

PLUS - I'm building WS with an eye to the various ways it can be broken down the road and making those future compatibility fixes as painless as possible and that just adds another layer of having to work things out before I put stuff in - one of the consequences of that strategy is that I am NOT gonna use my RJ modified RM Tertiles which include custom, totally different tile textures. Breaking WS that way would be a friggin nightmare to fix down the road and I just don't want it suffer that fate... but that's just one eye-candy... there is so much other in the way of 3D art that it's a minor sacrifice to me though I really enjoy the map-making technique it would entail that HB pioneered in Ariza & Aurora, Troman in Fortress, Laws & Me in the Citadel Maps and which used I to great satisfaction in the NEWST Mangodai Campaign Maps I worked on for the better part of a year steady.

Anyway - that is my total take on the WHY's of WZ's forecasted release in Q 1 2010 and not now even though it is definitely playable and novel fun to boot....., however, those are just NOT nearly close enough to my self-assigned goals and benchmarks, to be honest, and I see no up-side to comprise the process.

Regards, whip .
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[new paradigm leader]

i have an idea. the old warschool, the pre-xeno warschool. maybe you could release a mod comprised of the graphics and gameplay of that mod for general usage as to do so hopefully wouldnt take too much out of the current warschool which is a Very different item to the current mod that's if you still have it?

[new paradigm leader]

because at present mods for 2.2.x are sorely lacking. hopefully the scav mod will be finished soon. and maybe some other mods will be out like a mod with the mechs in etc my own WIP is on hiatus for reasons of educational difficulties and computer time limitations not to mention the gap in my skills at .Vlo and .Slo files.

[whippersnapper]

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Earlier in this thread on this page XANAX and I discussed the New Scav Factions which I'm calling The Seven Nations and how they would have their own Art forms and would follow a long tradition across history and cultures of warriors doing body art and painting their War Machines. XANAX is coming up with his own version of Scav Art for his new Scav Structures and we'll see it some time down road..

Along these lines of creating Scav Art to be displayed on their War Machines I'm working on a Dual Weapon Scav Turret for the "Wing Clan" of the Scav Seven Nations Faction and TRYING to create a Scav Art form somewhat influenced by all the references made on the linked page above.

Here are a couple snaps of one version, out of scores I've been working on (and rejecting for one reason or another). Even failures can be of interest and useful in the process of finding what "fits" just right for what your trying to achieve, all the way around. It's a journey, sometimes longer than other times. The process-technique I'm using in this particular effort has a name in fine art - it's called Bricolage...






I'm not yet "there" with my concept here - it is too "busy" and too "refined" ... I need to go down the road of "less" and a little "messy", I'm thinking.

I'm also working on a Scav APC but it's for a different tribe of The Seven Nations that call themselves The Heyoka Clan who will have their own art I haven't gotten to creating yet as I am now focused the Units Special Propulsion:




I'm also "retro-fitting" the Heavies with purloined Alien Tech.





And in case you missed it the attached screen cap below are XANAX's 3 New Alien Unit Bods for the new Alien Faction.

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@ NPL: I will have to "sleep" on what you are proposing in your last 2 posts. I'll speak to it tomorrow. Gotta get to making a living stuff now.

Regards, whip

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[whippersnapper]

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I had an epiphany. Don't need to sleep on it.

For any & all who wonder about pushing my forecasted release sooner than Q 1 - 2010 by any other means than outlined, I have an answer that is short and sweet. It's a quote & in this day of Google it shouldn't pose much of a riddle.

"Who is John Galt ?"

While not a dedicated Objectivist the streak yet runs deep, to be frank.

Regards, whip
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[yamar]

hmmm... I can wait until 2010 for this map, I just hope that there is not some major release of Warzone that breaks some of you're mods... but if there isn't a big release, your "base code" will just keep getting better .

ok, off to school , Yamar

[whippersnapper]

hmmm... I can wait until 2010 for this map, I just hope that there is not some major release of Warzone that breaks some of you're mods... but if there isn't a big release, your "base code" will just keep getting better .

ok, off to school , Yamar

Thanks for the sincere interest, Yamar. I don't foresee anything coming to term out of dev breaking WS before its release but if so I will be able to fix it in a fairly timely fashion since I know all the ways it can happen and what to do. Which reminds me I have to finish -

ALSO: I am in the midst of writing a brief but comprehensive Tutorial on What can break Mods, Maps & A.I.s, Now and in the Future, and by extension "How To Fix Them To Be Compatible" throughout that continuum of transformation-development...

Getting back to the homegrown Scav Art I mentioned earlier...

It's clear to me know that I have become these last few days much more fascinated with the Bricolage art forms manifesting while working on, & experimenting with, the model texture than I am in actually making something that is appropriate to the Scav Turret Model itself. Which means I'm gonna have to do a painting apart from this task to get it out of my system, so to speak, only then will I be able to get back to making a suitable texture for the "Wing Clan" Dual Weapon Turret. "Know thy self..." is actually quite practical counsel.

Below you will see why I've come to that conclusion. There's usually a silver lining to these setbacks (the short-sighted would only see a "failure"). Worst case I'll get a painting I'll enjoy out of it... then be able to go back to making an apt texture with fresh eyes and free of this particular Bricolage spell I'm under at present. Such is life - beautiful, really, are those gifts of unknown, unforeseen, things coming into play. :suprised:

[whippersnapper]

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Departing from the old circuit-board linear geometry of the above abandoned "Scav Art" concept for the Dual Weapon Wing Turret, I'm now moving along a more curvy organic continuum that at this stage is still too dense, too asymmetric, my line stroke too broad, to suit what I envision as a final state for the homegrown art of this particular scav tribe faction. However... what is gonna be kept from the organic iteration below moving forward (even as I scale back to a more spare and symmetric style, with a thinner line stroke) is the iconography - which I don't need to spell-out. As the adage has it - "Nothing ventured, nothing gained.."



Regards, whip
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[whippersnapper]

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A more camo type appearance - & still very much asymmetric. *(Full explanation provided below of this direction I'm exploring.) But you know what, truth be told, asymmetry seems a good fit for Scavs as I understand 'em.

As for this particular Scav creation - seems no end in sight just yet. Still have to tapper the geometry of the 2 weapon pods - modify other aspects of the geometry as well, like sweeping back the armatures. Just the nature of my process - change, change, change, the only real certainty. Think it was the great French poet and essayist, Paul Valery, who once quipped -

"A poem is never finished, only abandoned."

Valery's insight also brings to mind Leonardo working on the Mona Lisa for half a lifetime and only upon his death as an old man ending the painting's transformations. Definitely not the best modus for commerce or at all geared to garner the consensus approval of self-anointed hegemons, the vacuous kudos of nitwits or the slight-of-hand promulgated by lily-livered "oracles". But then again, some don't give a chit about any of that.

This thread has served well, & in the round, beyond my original expectations.

My sense is that it is also, here and now, a good place to suspend any further attention to it.

This project will continue, of course, but without any more progress reports or supplemental materials intended to be helpful to modders, artists and mappers or any more aesthetic discussion or shared WIP assets - there's been quite enough of all that and the memes look hardy enough to continue replicating beyond War School's particulars.

Sometime in Q 1 2010 I'll post a link to my web site were the various components of the War School project will be available for download.

Till that time - Carpe Diem and Arrivederci !, whip
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* EDIT: For those of you who may wonder why I'm exploring the look of the Scav Weapon attached - the Post Collapse Fallout would make the Metals used to create their war machine RADIOACTIVE.

HOW would any of the factions deal with that FACT ?? Even if the units are droids and have no human pilots.... this still would have to be dealt with...


Pumpkin never dealt with this. None of you have either from what I can see.

This new Scav stuff is my attempt to do so.

Radioactive metal would have to be de-contaminated - salvaged vehicles as well as raw material for manufacturing.

The tech is currently being developed in this area falls under Bioremediation....

Bacteria and Fungi strains can be used to decontaminate radioactive metal - salvaged vehicles....

My Scavs use this tech and one of the consequences is that the metal takes on an acid wash-corrosive organic, asymmetric, look that is comparable to certain pottery making crafting techniques.

And you all probably thought I didn't know what the frack I was doing here. :rolleyes:

It just doesn't pay to think you have all the answers when the truth is you just have a bunch of erroneous assumptions. xD

If I didn't want WS to be broken by the transition to the new terrain renderer I would use this knowledge in making custom tertiles for a truer post nuke holocaust world.... as it is I'll simply be using it in some of the new Scav stuff like the 2 versions of Dual Weapon Turret below.



Adios....

[whippersnapper]

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@ XANAX: I've disabled PMing, auto notifications and this particular email account so best bet to reach me these days about any of this is to shoot me an email at the following acct. - rman2120 AT fastmail DOT fm

BTW..... I am currently being influenced in my structure & unit design by the BMW GINA Light Visionary Model...

Here are some links including video that get into the design concepts behind the vehicle which will convey exactly why I am inspired to embrace it in War School..

BMW GINA Light Visionary Model: Premiere Video

BMW's fascinating GINA Light Visionary Model design study In Signal to Noise weblog

BMW GINA Light Visionary Model concept car pictures

I'm also connecting this to the military's work on Memory-Nano Metal Fabric (DARPA funded project.)

Also related to all this - been experimenting with your modified anim file and by accident came across a way to do the Shape Shifting invoked in all this tech... may also have a bearing on my version of the "Tumbler".

Regards, whip
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[XANAX]

@ whippersnapper: I'd rather you email me because I'm horrible at remembering emails
[email protected]


p.s. maybe you could forward my models/files through your email to post here
or just to show you my progress.. because I'm bored & so haven't been very productive

but I've been studying Command & Conquer 3 + Kanes Wrath
there are things that are very cool and would love to see warzone have

[whippersnapper]

@ whippersnapper: I'd rather you email me because I'm horrible at remembering emails
[email protected]

Alright then. Will do.

p.s. maybe you could forward my models/files through your email to post here

Cool. That works.

I still think your work should be released as a mod apart for others to play with &/or use to further other visions quite different than what's going on here in WS.

In particular I think your Mechs would make a splendid mod all by themselves. In fact I have already combined your Mechs with my updated version of Grim's GFX Mod into an unreleased mod and they are like a match made in heaven because your Mechs roaming against Grim's custom Arizona Tertiles really highlight the brilliant and subtle detail of your geometry and texture artistry..... much more so than the stock Pumpkin Arizona tertiles or worse yet - the stock Pumpkin Urban or Rocky Mountain tertiles which IMHO don't really do your Mechs justice.

In any case, if you'd like me to post stuff here or in other dedicated threads - either way, whatever you want, I'll be happy to do that.

or just to show you my progress.. because I'm bored & so haven't been very productive

As far as productivity.....

I'm still enjoying all the work presented in this thread. Recently I have hooked up with some fellow musicians who also share my cultural background and core values and we've been making music; across genres improvisational pocket jams. This musical activity has drawn on a goodly amount of my spare time thus triggering my dispensing with this threads posting effort - a decision easily made, truth be told. In the process an amazing contrast has come into play & to the fore, causing me to re-focus, reassess, and re-appreciate the vast gulf between keeping company that is a totally energizing experience, is reciprocal, is purely a positive net gain for all involved as opposed to when the social engagement or occasion is more slanted toward (and comparable to) "negative cash flow"; predominantly draining, enervating, and in all ways that matter most, essentially draconian.

Anyway, we all go through phases, moods, changes and they happen for reasons not often crystal clear in the moment but that usually lead to better situations and results in the end if we take it in that spirit from jump street. That's how I see varying productivity periods.

but I've been studying Command & Conquer 3 + Kanes Wrath
there are things that are very cool and would love to see warzone have

I hadn't played any C & C game for ages until a discussion I had with Grim Moroe and he started breaking down some the design components along the lines of what's called "Special Abilities" (and associated UIs) that my interest was piqued enough to once again play the franchise and study the various mechanics as they have evolved from one C & C game to another. So I can definitely relate to what you're up to and thinking about.

I'll drop you an email over the weekend.

Regards, whip
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[whippersnapper]

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@ XANAX: I've referred more than once to The Tumbler and so-called "Tumbler ability" as if it's common knowledge. Here is what I'm talking about -







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