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[mod]Next Research System (NRS) 2.3.9

Posted: 15 Jul 2011, 18:36
by Iluvalar
Ask here for the latest version.

Fully previsible tech tree construction.
**It's simple : Every avalaible branches are there straight at the beginning.
**No hidden surprises. Every research have one and only one prerequisite.

Purely consistant and chanlenging progression line.
**Once the branches started, it take 20 minutes to reach the end of that branch by spending ~7.5%¹ of your power and you will be 400% stronger.
**The progression is proportional, not linear. The game pace will not tend to slow down like the standard tech tree does.
**It's the same (or close see "secrets") for every branches. No need to worry about the effects of an upgrades. There should be no way to "grind" the research tree to collect overpowerful upgrades in any way.

Full propulsion oriented upgrades
**Each propulsions have 4 upgrades. This replace the old borgs armor.
**this force players to think more about their propulsion type, it's also a good way to adapt your design to the incoming enemies. Your opponents just keep researching cannons ? it's time for "cyborg propulsion II" ;) . But also the other way around.

Armor system improvement
**You have now HP and kinetic armor working separetly. which make you decide where you spend your money. Remember that the vehicule armor also work for borgs.
**Structure and walls upgrade merged. I dont believe that choice is relevant, it's just another useless button to press in the lab.
** /!\ NEW /!\ : Fully functionnal armor layer ! Plan your bodies size in function of your enemies weapon style (soft/medium/drutal)

Interest rate
**You obtain a portion of your power each 10 seconds as a bonus.
**Please note that the interest rate is carefully set so it is WORST than research.
**You can delay your unit production. But... this still a wargame, to you do it at your own risk.
**Here is some strategies that are easier with interest rate 1)moving your bases at start. 2) keep some money for later. 3) In some cases permit you to defend a position with less oil but better topology. 4) Even if it is a weaker strategy, I believe there is some room, once in a while, to surprise your opponent with an interst rate opening.

**The same script that is evaluating the stuffs in the autobalance mod is now scaling the weapon stats according to it potential.If i try to improve it's damage, it will automaticaly improve it's pricing accordingly. There is no way out.
**The balance should be even better since, this time, i dont need to evaluate weird upgrades scheme to evaluate the weapons.

As a whole
**Not only this mod confront you to a lot more choices, but as a side effect that create hundreds of new situations. Cobra heavy lasers on wheels vs wyvern single mg ? Why not ? It could happen here.

New! (NRS+)
In NRS+ I have imported new things from 2120 (for the most part) and NTW mod
Quark line
A new set of 3 cannons. The longest timing line ever. It's an ANTI TANK line (like rockets). Hugly vs borgs but excellent vs those track IV HP nightmare.
**NRS++ : in ++ the quark line is the second anti-structure instead of anti-tank (having 2 distinct lines of rockets))

2 ½ new set of bodies : fishs, chimps and Drakes
**fishs and chimps have excellent thermal armor. Chimps have also a surprising light weight giving more speed.

more weapons...
there is 2 new flamers, one new rocket, one new arty missile, 2 more laser and 2 more rail. the shortest lines now have 5 weapons. Making things a lot more natural when it come to change your weapon model.

Buildings !
*Omega and exThrIII lab : respectively 2x and 3x more fast than the standard lab.
*Nuclear reactor => Solar plant : Produce more power.
*Virus accounting radio tower : Reduce the power of everyone in the map even you suffer from 50% of the effect. Should start to be efficient only in 4p FFA or higher or if your team have an excellent economical health.
*Bank : Get more money at start by building one ! I strongly recommend you don't build more than one before you understand clearly the interest rate penality (20% of your oil production).

Other changes
some lighter changes I need to talk about...

"artillery" rockets and missile have now their own branches
**mra => ripples => arch angel => LtSAM =>'seraph => HvSAM.
**they follow the MISSILE upgrades (now depicted by ripples turret
**In exchange the scourge is now the last rockets weapons.

Mortar + howy
**are now in the same line and follow the same upgrades

Weapons swapping
**Some branches see their weapons inverted. I tried to alternate weapons properties, price, effects a bit more. So it's more then just a matter of upgrading for upgrading each time. You'll see some weapons arrive earlier. Dont panic, remember the price is fair.

Defensives structures given with the weapon
**you dont need to research them separetly.
**Beware ! yes it's single mg tower ^^ ;)

The cannon AA is no more, it's now in the AA serie.

There was a 2nd nexus turret called "spy turret" in the stats.
**I have modified it (low range, low rof) so it's the first weapons of the electronic branch. It should be a fair weapons for the price and time research. But it wont be the nexus turret (which is the last of the same branch)
**emp cannon => spy turret => emp bomb => emp mortar => nexut turret.
**NRS++ : emp cannon => shield =-> spy turret => emp bomb => emp mortar => nexut turret.

Oil dependant pack
**The mod comes in many oil setting to have the best out of each oil setting. The research will not be "flooded" by too much oil. But you will have more units and more defences in higher oil. Make sure you play the good mod !

If you still here. there is some more details for you.

Progression scale
I told that the progression is totaly consitant from one line to another. That was a little lie, there is some scale that multiply the research points in some branches. here the explanation :

150% : branches that lack of both upgrades : CommandTurret and Electronic. The more you spend on that, the more you end up with unupgradable parts.
140% : To kinetic and thermal armor. There is a minimum damage of 1/3 in the code that the armor could nothing against it you take that risk by upgrading only your armor. There is also 2 set of armor which make you vulnerable to the other set of weapon.
130% : branches that lack one upgrade : bomb
130% : New propulsions. (see below 100+20+10%)
120% : Replacable parts : bodies main branch, weapons turrets... To compensate the fact that the upgrade dont touch previous built units.
120% : to all "production" upgrades. factory and engineering. Experience told me that the game is very boring when players are limited by time instead of power.
120% : Propulsion upgrades. Because it's a really specific upgrade and it could do harm if someone adapt his weapon to you afterward. But remember that the upgrade is overall better. It worth the risk.
80% : Power upgrades. Because it apply to anything you could do and you cant possibly be wrong by improving your power.
80% : HP. Same.. it apply to so much designs... it work a bit like a joker.
50% : Research upgrade. This one procure an unstoppable advantage after a certain amount of time. But on short term, it is a power blackhole.

As you see these bonus are there for good reasons. One should expect that changing his weapon is not just losing his time! I'm just telling you so if those considerations stumble into your mind you know that they were taken into account in the mod as well.

Specialisation bonus
The progression line is fixed so even pure multiplicative upgrade (like ROF and dmg) are slightly less efficient if you split your research points then if you focus in only one line. Players that try to "square" every upgrades will have the advantage of not showing any weakness, but wil be vulnerable to specialised players if they dont themself find the weak spot. This is to avoid the "squared" tactic to be the only one effective.

Mid step account
if one weapons branch have 9 dmg upgrades and only 3 ROF, both lines will gives 400% bonus at the end but the dmg line will be slightly longer to take into account the smaller steps that the player taken and the better gain he had between the upgrades. Longer upgrades have some good effects if you manage the timing correclty.

Interest rate vs research cost
You'll be credited for the interest rate that you would get with the research cost during the research.

Tips :
You still reading this ? Oo
Do not try stupid tech jump !
Remember that an upgraded mg can be as strong as a pulse laser. Do not get crazy and click instantly on laser, rail gun, modules and lassat at once straight at the beggining of the game ! You will get massacred by T1 weapons players before you get any of these. The higher tech weapons are good because A) there is no mid step so you get the weapon a bit (I said a bit) faster. B) after the first step, there is a full 3 upgrades line. Which mean that in the end of the tech tree, laser players will still have some more upgrades to get when mg players will hit the end of his branches.

However, a T1 weapon have 3 upgrades line straight at start where the first 15 minutes of research in laser only have one. That mean a T1 player could spend more at once and therefore have a better weapon then the laser. I'd say even more : since you'll really need a T1 weapon to defend yourself, you will probably have to upgrade it quite a bit. This mean that when you'll finaly reach the T3 weapon, your T1 weapon might still be stronger for a while. Obtaining an unupgraded T3 weapon is not an instant victory condition, I'd say you are just half the way. Remember that units already in play might be strong and can be upgraded afterward.

Light or Heavy body?
Light body have lower HP, lower armor and lower engine. If you weapons doesn't bring it own HP or is too heavy, the light body design will be a fail. If those same stats are excellent, you will spoil your money by mounting such a weapons on a too heavy body.

HP/armor vs DMG/ROF
Real high damages are not that much affected by high armors. Since it's subtractive logic, 6 or 9 kinetic armor will not affect that much a 50 dmg weapon (like tank killers) but it will on a 15 dmg weapon (like mg). Beware to not overdo the armor. The dmg is caped to a minimum of 1/3. Any improvement of armor after that stage will be useless. The construction of the tech tree should make that armor consideration as important as the weapon modifiers one.

The weapon modifiers are unchanged. I can also think of a new way to counter about everything. Use your imagination, you'll find new solutions ;) .

You will have no choice to adapt to your opponent. Trying to simply overdo your research to avoid the fact that your opponent is developping a more relevant weapon will fail. Be ready to change your propulsion or your weapon fast ! Before you spent so much in it that you cant go back.

There is always some research paths that have longer timing then yours and if you leave your opponent free to research without worry, you'll end up with unbeliavables problems. Always do enough action to know what he is planning. It's the only way you can adapt to him.

It's better to concentrate your energy in one line. But you need to have a plan B, even a C, ready if your opponent change his design drastically to adapt to you. I found that it was a good idea to research the turrets when you dont produce the design and to research damage and rof only when you have those units on the ground. So you have a decent weapons when it come to adapt at low cost. Try to have all the different weapon modifier in your design screen. If you have a good mg, you might never find any use at the anti-personal laser, you might prefer to take rail as high tech.

More magic numbers
82 seconds of full scaled production. This is the time you need to produce something before it upgrade become obviously good. Even on short term basis. By full scaled I mean the entire faction using 100% of his power. Which is rarely the case.

70% debt (1 banks). That's the treshold were interest (simply keeping what is left of your power) is better than research.

Those numbers are for 4p team, will vary with different mod settings.

if you play in single player in your team. The last gap in the balance between you and a 2p team will be filled by a faction bonus.
You have 2 minutes to announce your faction by one of those magic words. If no you will end un in the default faction with extra HP.
-"gl" Engineering
-"hf" Factory production upgrade
-"all on" Research
-"u2" Power upgrade
-"thx" engine
-"cu" sensor
-"no cheat" wall upgrades
-"lol" HP upgrade (also the default after 2 minutes)
-"no need" Merit bonus when you win. The faction for real men.

Frequent complaints :
Thing that I ear and that wont change anyway. :P
They are invinsible!
  • No adaptation to your opponent design will end into "free upgrades". When he have so much units of one type in play that it's instantly more efficient to upgrade them then to build new ones.
  • Constant progression make constant cost to any given mistakes. It's not the case in standard where you are used to become slower to react after the first 10 minutes.
  • Constant progression (bis) make a leading faction quickly get stronger once they have real advantage. If they play conservative, they might come to you when they are clearly superior in strength
  • Research choice : In the standard game you have enought lab to follow every relevant line. Armor, bodies and weapons all together and even if you have to put focus to some point, basicaly the HP and damage will always improve together. It's not the case in NRS one faction might have chosen to spend more in defense then in offense (or power module, lassat or whatever). That can makes both side survive more or less long in the battle.
    All that stack together and sometime become unbelievable. Ie : a player that chose to focus in defense realize that the enemy dont adapt to his new design. His units surviving well he decide to stop the assault and improve even more his design. When he return to your base to give the final blow, it's not really "final". Since his weapons are as bad as his armor is good, he amass his army in front of your base. Kill all your units in a looong agony. You try to produce more, but of course, you lost since while. Your new desesperate move will fail.
  • Delinked upgrades and weapons : sometime player think that the plasmite flamer should annihilate everything. But they fail to understand that they'll get the weapon without any upgrades (which is impossible in standard). They await too much from a weapon. Or likwise, they fail to grasp that a player can research a lot of upgrade without caring about the new component of the branch. Leading to some devastating single machine gun where you dont expect it.
It's too slow
That's false. Each line of research take 20 minutes (for component) + first step to end and 40 for ALL the research upgrade. That's only 20 minutes to reach the dragon body or the twin assault cannon. It's always a lot faster then the original balance. However the original balance is known to be on fast forward the first few minutes. The first machine guns are the best exemple and near the end it slow down considerably. It's not the same in NRS. The components are spread across all that 20 minutes evenly.

Also NRS feature even more extra long timing research. If both team decide to wait till they get some late component before they attack, the game might stall a few minutes. I try to warn before each match, but if you try to reach gauss, the game might look long to start.

I dont want to learn a new tech tree
The only "complicated" line is the propulsion line and their upgrades (there is a line for all the propulsion). Every other branch start from start in a straight line. Most player look like home in that tech tree in less then one game. There is no traps, everything should be fair. No particular timing you must know nor any overpowerful components.

I dont like mods !!
Why ?

I dont like mods !!
ok then... too bad.

Rehost please !!
hehe :3

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 15 Jul 2011, 18:38
by Iluvalar
The mod is still right now in it "proto" phase. There is no "stable" release as it's extremely hard to make a perfect mod on the first time. I post this so if you are one of those experimenting with me in the proto, you know exaclty what you are playing. I'll give a link to a stable release as soon as I make one.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 15 Jul 2011, 21:04
by milo christiansen
I'll try it if you send me a copy, sounds cool :wink: but will probably take a bit to get used to.

As long as its better than the abomination that the tech tree is now I'll be happy :lol2:

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 16 Jul 2011, 00:56
by Iluvalar
milo christiansen wrote:but will probably take a bit to get used to.
I'm surprised how much short time it take to see people play right. It will take a lot more to master however XD .

look for NTTProtoV06 in this folder : ... 59C968!288 .

The naming sheme will probably change to NRS-[Oil]-V0x in near futur.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 16 Jul 2011, 16:19
by milo christiansen
Cool can't wait to try it :)

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 19 Jul 2011, 17:11
by Iluvalar
to Preternatural :
I dont think it's so much true. Cannons, flamer, rockets... maybe even mortars are also obtainable fast enough for a rush. And we'll need to learn again for intense competitive play but the mod also offer new possibility against mg.

*half track early and without any constraint. I believe it's a 2 minute research (or so).
*independant kinetic armor which will work nice vs mg.
*Since light bodies are now competitive with heavy, an mg player (with lot of HP) will need to favor light bodies. If that's so, improving your ROF will work better then your dmg. (That's a new 3rd layer move).
*All weapons line instantly gives away a defensive structure. Mg are bad vs structures...

To All :
I forgot to inform my autobalance of that power scaling. I was about to release the mod but, we are good for another round of test play (since long time players would have found OP weapons over time without that autobalance working correctly).

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 21 Jul 2011, 22:11
by milo christiansen
I like it, the tech tree is much clearer than the default.

The only bad thing is that it makes the skirmish AI really stupid, but I expected that :P

Sorry I can't play multiplayer so I can't say anything about balance :(

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 23 Jul 2011, 04:14
by Iluvalar
Thx for your test milo. Nothing to change ? You were right so I worked on the AI today. and apparently it's a terrifying opponent now. There is 2 reason for this : A) I teached it 2 fully functional, modder proposal, branch of research. B) The power scale doesn't affect the power cheat of the bots. Which mean the can potentially power cheat 5x more. So be warned if you want to play at hard : I lost against one of those AI today... 2 Time in a row... and I had 4 teamates with me ^^.

I also uploaded a graph of the progression in my first post ↑ . These are the real data for upgrades in 2.3.8 btw :) .

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 25 Jul 2011, 21:26
by milo christiansen
Cool, I'll try it as soon as I get home. :) I'll probably get my a** kicked but that'll just make me a better player... right? :hmm: :lol2:

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 25 Jul 2011, 21:53
by Iluvalar
the official NRS mod is released ! it's named ilu_2.3.8_NRSVXX_[R] .

Where [R] is the number of recommended oil per faction.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 27 Jul 2011, 16:43
by Iluvalar
I want to thanks officialy the hundred of players that helped me testing that mod in it proto phase. Asked me for rehost. And helped me test every major branches possible in the mod.

It's because of all of you that willingly jumped into the mod and that critisized it. That I have been able to bring that mod to, i'd like to say, a pro competitive multiplayer version.

thx 2 U all (:

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 28 Jul 2011, 19:19
by Goth Zagog-Thou
Nice! I've been holding off on trying it out... I *have* to have a go, now. :D

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 28 Jul 2011, 19:45
by Goth Zagog-Thou
Ilu, I'm getting a crash to desktop on 2.3.8 when the first bit of research completes. Logfile isn't showing anything though. :(

Was this meant for Master instead? Oh, and I'm using V11.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 28 Jul 2011, 20:04
by Iluvalar
Try "ilu_2.3.8_NRSV01_[R].wz" instead. It's the latest release. Do you have any other mods around ? How do you load it ?

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 29 Jul 2011, 18:53
by Goth Zagog-Thou
Using the 'autoload' folder. Same way I load my custom music that will be in Cam 4.