Page 3 of 23

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 05 Oct 2011, 20:08
by Iluvalar
Wow... I've been late on news lately... well every mod and map mod comme with a readme file ...

NRSpV01 :
Never existed ! Never >:D

*The interest rate was a bit too high. I was taking into account that a single faction could have up to 10 line multiplying each other. In fact having more then 4 is really hard...
*The repair upgrade behind the repair factory (simply to avoid confusion)
*The nexus resistance is now after the auto repair (same reason)
*The body lines are now "delinked" there is 3 different line : light, medium, heavy
*in V04 and V05 there was a small bug with the speed of the research not impacted as it should be. I believe the lines were ~15 minutes long instead of 20.

*Small changes in the autobalance mod release.
**Weapon modifiers taken into account.
**Propulsion now balanced.

NRSpV9-10 :
I skipped those version by mistakes. dont search them

After many many tries, I finally found for real the template borgs bug. That were making some borgs look like another template on other player view (not yours)

The V12 is inside the download folders as stand alone mod for multiplay

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 06 Oct 2011, 00:42
by Warzone_Fan
:? i'm really confused on the skydrive link :?
whats the last single player version of NRS? :oops:

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 06 Oct 2011, 00:52
by Iluvalar
I'm really sorry about this folder it's messy
NRSp V12
+8 oil / faction
+1 player per faction
+during ~20 minutes
= ilu_2.3.8_NRSpV12_8_1p_20m.wz

if it's too far from the setting you want to play, just tell me the parameters you need.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 06 Oct 2011, 23:47
by Warzone_Fan
just what i wanted thanks

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 09 Oct 2011, 21:45
by Iluvalar
*Was a huge effort of documentation. The lab should now tell you how much you ROF will increase with the next upgrade.
*a small bug fix that become obvious with the new lab messages ^^.

*Step cost research cancelator : The research with 5 steps / 40 minutes will not increase their cost along time anymore. The research with more step will increased and now you'll get a reduction for the one that hold less upgrades. You'll get refunded for the time you took to wait.
*The specialisation bonus have been improved. The same research will give even more the second time. For exemple : th first mg dmg upg gives 16% while the last gives 22%. This mean that to reach the more efficiency possible, you need to "forget" to upgrade a weakpoint : low armor, low rof, single mg.

*After long considerations, I reduced the propulsion upgrades bonus as low as 110%. They are not more hard to change then any weapon. I'm sorry I've been driven by others behavior in the mod. I wanted to have people use the propulsion upgrades. But they were not using it because it was new. Not because it was underated. So now that. I cought some players rushing on propulsion instead of weapon. I believe it is time to even the uprades of both.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 22:19
by Iluvalar

While talking to Cyp about the interest rate calculation, I came on the conclusion that for best result, we need to take into account the figure count bonus (in the last autobalance release) while calculating the interest rate. After many tests, here are my conclusion :

Interest rate is better to spam units than to spend on research. Using your interest power to spam and outnumber your opponent look more efficient then using it on research. Which lead to 2 different evaluation. A) What happen if i use the power to research B) what happen if i use the power to produce units.

This gave me another guideline to help fixing the interest rate the best possible (in term of game theory). So now I can fix it exactly between research and unit production :

Research > Nothing (grow interest) > unit production .

As a result, the interest rate in NRSpV17 is a bit lower then it was before.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 02:58
by Iluvalar
In the middle of a game, I realized that it's not the power at the begin of the research that matter, but the power when you finally get your boost at the end.

In any other mod of warzone, this would be the same, but here in NRS+ because of the interest rate, longer researches were less efficient.

For the pro NRS players, that might change the timing and perspective of many things. Not in macro, but probably in micro.. well let's try out...

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 11:44
by Reg312
not sure i understand all your thoughts... can you tell what you mean by "Interest Rate"?
have you change log for all changes made from v16 to v17? then may be i can understand what you mean :)

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 16:10
by Iluvalar
Interest rate is a feature in NRS since the beginning. It gives you a portion of your power regulary. If you have 1000 power left in your reserve, you'll get ~20 more power each 10 seconds as a bonus.

Hmmm that first post really need some review now...

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 16:35
by Reg312
Iluvalar wrote:Interest rate is a feature in NRS since the beginning. It gives you a portion of your power regulary. If you have 1000 power left in your reserve, you'll get ~20 more power each 10 seconds as a bonus.
if interest rate is just power per 10 second, then i cannot understand following "Interest rate is better to spam units than to spend on research".. nevermind

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 16:56
by Iluvalar
I meant : Delaying the unit production is possible. Theoretically you'll get more the more you use the interest rate to delay your production. However, spending in any research will worth even more.

Your research budget should be spent immediately, but your army might be "stocked" in the power line waiting the last minute to produce.

The first post have been updated.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 03 Nov 2011, 16:48
by Iluvalar
*With the "Step cancelator" from V15 and the interest rate account for V18. The research time shortened a bit and become more uniform. The gain from research upgrade was way too high. As any other research, I want the research upgrade and module to be a decision not an automatism. Since it's on a second level layer, it is obviously better. The question is how much time it take before you really benefit from that. I believe that time was too short (~4min). Now I believe i have doubled that timing (~8min). Which mean you will suffer longer from the lack of that upgrade (in other component) before it pay itself and start to give you the lead.
*Since V18 changes also made the shortest lines higher, some lines that were intentionally short needed some adjustment : Propulsion main line, repair, sensors.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 08 Nov 2011, 18:36
by Arreon
I can't find V19. Or is meant to be found yet?

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 08 Nov 2011, 18:42
by Iluvalar
Arreon wrote:I can't find V19. Or is meant to be found yet?
Sorry Arreon, as I make changes that are more and more small in term of major game play, i dont pack every single version in a mod pack. However, i keep packing it in NTW2 (high oil) and impactV2 (low oil) and we play online with all those version. (practice make perfect ^^). That's why I keep the count very carefully here and announce every little changes.

See you ask for the v19 but i was playing V20 online ^^. If you want any pack come on IRC to ask me for the latest one that fit exactly what you plan to play.

*Viper body was balanced as if there was already 12% research boost. Now fixed.
*Penetration estimation : 2 unit per shots => 3 units per shots. Influencing all weapon that use that.
*Cannon AI ready to kick your butt : Now fully competitive with his little brother the mg AI.

Re: [mod]Next Research System (NRS)

Posted: 10 Nov 2011, 16:23
by Reg312
Great work you did Iluvalar! but you know..
What i dislike in NRS:

1) research strategy have great influence on result.
in original WZ four players can research simply all without hearts and play well

2) Totally cannot estimate weapon&body power
ir original WZ if i see heavy cannons or inferno i know it can burn my ass

3) Tactics works bad because satuplink appear so early

4) Buildings invulnerable for early weapons