BecomePrey 2.92* (NOT the original 2.92!)

[PkK]

I recently played a 1(me) vs 1 vs 2 vs 4 on Manhattan map.

It seems winning against BP is mostly about surviving the initial mg/wheels rushes. Sometimes they make some more attacks, such as heavy mg/hover or heavy cannon/hover, heavycannon/tracks, but mostly the BP AI just gets stuck somehow somewhere. They like to build their bases in a way that makes their trucks get stuck. You can even temporarily revivie them by destroying the buildings that block their vehicles. I never saw BP use VTOLs, but I have seen them build a VTOl factory and landing pad (which is already better than Aivolution).

Philipp

[wari]

I'm getting hammered by Bp Vtols their targeting my sensor towers so my artillery is useless

[PkK]

I now tried The Pit, 1vs 2 vs 2 vs 3. (1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 4 was too hard for me, I didn't survive the initial rushes).
Result:
AI makes some rushes, the starts turtling, completly blocking their main base entrance with defense structures. Only the side entrances (1piece wide) stay open. When they manage to send some units through the side entranced to neighbouring bases, they then can exit into the middle through the neighbouring bases's main entrance (one the neighbouring base has been destroyed). However the unit sjust get stuck there. There are stuck trucks all around the bases. I saw them build some VTOl factories and pads but did not see a VTOL.

Philipp

[wari]

Try ziggurat, they build factories outside their bases so there's no pile up.

[zspace]

I just started playing against this AI a few days ago, and I've managed to get in 4 or 5 good full length (start at T1 and end with T3 equivalent research) games against it. I can see some of the major differences between it and the standard AI, but I am missing out on some of the better points of the AI.
I have seen (and experienced) the increased aggressiveness on smaller maps, or low power maps, and must say I am impressed at how it handles itself. I had a really epic battle on arelicofmars, so I doubt if I will ever go back to using the old AI, as this one makes the game much more enjoyable for me.

I am somewhat disappointed that I have never got the AI to turtle (even tried squared, with 16 power all right at the start). They don't seem to want to hole up, they just keep building tanks and build a very minimal number of structures in and around their bases. This makes it about as challenging as the old AI. Any ideas on how to get them to play like that?
Also I have never seen the AI VTL swarm. I get maybe 5-10 minutes of a few small VTL waves (usually 4-5 in a wave, which still beats the basic AI's 2-3), and the second I get a few AA sites up I rarely see another VTL for the rest of the game. I though it might just be a reaction to a lack of space, but I played a good long game on Ziggurt, one of the more open maps I can think of, and got the same basic results (other then an occasional grouping trying to target my outer oil rigs).

Overall though I am enjoying this AI, and am looking forward to whatever improvements happen in the future.

[whippersnapper]

I am somewhat disappointed that I have never got the AI to turtle (even tried squared, with 16 power all right at the start). They don't seem to want to hole up, they just keep building tanks and build a very minimal number of structures in and around their bases. This makes it about as challenging as the old AI. Any ideas on how to get them to play like that?

Also I have never seen the AI VTL swarm. I get maybe 5-10 minutes of a few small VTL waves (usually 4-5 in a wave, which still beats the basic AI's 2-3), and the second I get a few AA sites up I rarely see another VTL for the rest of the game. I though it might just be a reaction to a lack of space, but I played a good long game on Ziggurt, one of the more open maps I can think of, and got the same basic results (other then an occasional grouping trying to target my outer oil rigs).

Try any of Lav_Coyotes 8-player maps from the last 6 months @ T-3, advanced bases, high power. They all (Lav's) bring out the very best in Become Prey (much better than the stock 8-player maps, though many of the stock 4-player maps work very well) - including Turtle, Octopus and Eagle tactics. On Lav's 8-player maps you'll have to contend with simultaneous, multiple vector, ground and air assaults - also, while it's base defenses are quite varied & extensive, BP does NOT tend to build itself in like on many less well conceived maps (less in that the map makers don't have the slightest clue how to design maps around optimizing the skirmish a.i.). And if you somehow take-out a BP HQ you will trigger its "Move_base_Event" which means BP will commence building a second Main Base a fair distance from the original, thus making it more challenging to eliminate from the face of the map (you usually won't know this is happening because you're still focused on the Main Base...)

regards, whipper

[lav_coyote25]

speaking of which - i have been working on several new maps. bagdad8 , reull and a few others... hopefully BP will kick ass on these as well. xD

[stiv]

the map makers don't have the slightest clue how to design maps around optimizing the skirmish a.i.

You have talked about what features trigger BP's different modes. But what sort of features help make a map BP-compatible?

[DarkCheetah]

When 2.2.1 comes out, try playing on Miza against 7 allied normal AIs. If you survive the initial ground attacks, you will be owned by their waves of VTOL attacks.

alright i"l try that, and like others said on ziggurat , and maps from our good Lav_Coyote

[niker]

There is nothing more rewarding for an AI scripter than when someone refers to my AI as "him"

I am afraid that most of the problems described are really map pathing bugs rather than AI issues. AI doesn't percieve the terain like players, it simply sends units from point A to point B and if the game can't navigate unit to those coordinates through the terrain, the unit gets stuck. If there's a rock, the game must avoid it, the AI is not aware of the obstacle.

You are crying on a wrong grave, better ask map designers and pathfinding scripters Controling path finding on the AI level is impossible with current hardware, it needs to be managed on lower level in the game engine and we all know how bugged and inefficient that subsystem is.

[Per]

From my (limited) playtesting, it looked like BecomePrey has the same problem as the original Pumpkin AI - it built itself into a corner. Defensive buildings need to be placed at some distance from each other to let units pass. This problem is fixed in the current, official AI.

There are also some crash bugs when running with asserts turned on that need to be fixed.

If you are interested in fixing these problems, I (and I am sure others) can provide more info, screenshots and do some more playtesting.

[whippersnapper]

the map makers don't have the slightest clue how to design maps around optimizing the skirmish a.i.

You have talked about what features trigger BP's different modes. But what sort of features help make a map BP-compatible?

Sorry... I totally missed this.

I've written in detail on this in my "War School" thread and in the threads where I have tested other map makers maps - especially Lav_Coyote's maps.

The problems are mainly with "legacy" maps - Pumpkin's and from the community from years past.

All the maps I have tested made in 2009 by me or Lav or others have allowed Become Prey to unfold in full measure without any major problems whatsoever..... and included in that assessment is Become Prey NOT bottle-necking within it's Base Platforms. I've been playing with this version of BP since the summer of '08 - a full year now, so I know it intimately, you could say.

Again most problems that arise are with Pumpkin Legacy maps in the distro and those map issues are fixable. Of course you can jump through hoops with Pathing A.I. coding to address these issues.... me, I just make my maps observant of certain limits, like what follows.

One of the main problems (not the only one, by any means) with maps is the placement of Oil resources up for grabs, outside the Base Perimeter. It arises when scouting truck A.I. ranges on a resource through impassable terrain and the nearest access point is "out-of-range".... this alone causes MAJOR problems with skirmish A.I.'s scripting unfolding and it is because map makers place their resources withOUT taking this limit into account. Something as simple as this can wreck havoc with how effective ANY skirmish a.i. plays-out, not just BP..

Regards, whip

...

[thelion]

How does BP work in campaign maps?

[DylanDog]

How does BP work in campaign maps?

It does not work on campaign but only on skirmish

[thelion]

But didn't airevolution work on campaign maps?