Starting power level amount

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Originway
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Originway » 07 Mar 2013, 21:35

they must have had a way to balance everything before

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The Overlord
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by The Overlord » 08 Mar 2013, 03:00

Iluvalar wrote:we gonna need to talk about reforming that tech tree into something coherent and predictable.
I think that instead of redoing the tree, there should be a screen that allows the player to search for a specific tech and then be told what to research in order to receive that technology. :ninja:
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effigy
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by effigy » 08 Mar 2013, 05:38

Maybe some sort of automatic research could be added. Eg., if you research MG, the lab you use to research mg will then automatically choose the next upgrade needed to advance that line of tech?
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by NoQ » 08 Mar 2013, 06:39

Emm guys i'm still not figuring out what's with all this talking? Aint learning the best part of it? If you don't want to learn the tech tree, you just go play tic-tac-toe? If you don't like the need for clicking quickly, why don't you play some battle for wesnoth? If you don't expect to learn openings and strategies, why don't you play some, dunno ... xonotic? What makes you want to eliminate things warzone is most proud of?

Just random thoughts. There were a few good ideas in this thread already, of course.

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Iluvalar
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Iluvalar » 08 Mar 2013, 07:24

Originway wrote:they must have had a way to balance everything before
We are starting to have perceptible uncertainty. About 30%. Which make some research items and path better than the others. And we have very few control on each ones it gonna be. And that's not because we are lazy on the balance work. It's inherent to the tech tree shape
The Overlord wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:we gonna need to talk about reforming that tech tree into something coherent and predictable.
I think that instead of redoing the tree, there should be a screen that allows the player to search for a specific tech and then be told what to research in order to receive that technology. :ninja:
Sure, that won't help us with the balance. And on top of that, if players are not even aware anymore that they research speed upgrade to obtain rocket upgrade. Why not just giving them a rocket upgrade option in the first place ? 8)
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Rommel
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Rommel » 08 Mar 2013, 14:02

NoQ wrote:Emm guys i'm still not figuring out what's with all this talking? Aint learning the best part of it? If you don't want to learn the tech tree, you just go play tic-tac-toe? If you don't like the need for clicking quickly, why don't you play some battle for wesnoth? If you don't expect to learn openings and strategies, why don't you play some, dunno ... xonotic? What makes you want to eliminate things warzone is most proud of?

Just random thoughts. There were a few good ideas in this thread already, of course.
+1

Really the only difference is that I would like the access the tech tree in game - a lot of peeps might download WZ and not even know of the guide :shock:

Some well designed tutorial games for the beginner to prompt them to use the tech tree, even something as simple as a massed army coming up them in x amount of minutes and they have this time to produce an army to beat the army coming at them, another maybe focusing on defense as well.

Both of these could *require" some serious research to win, not just produce mg tanks and also focus on MP. For those wanting more to play low oil maps, this would be a good opportunity to train the noob up at low oil and thus more chance of them playing low oil in MP, maybe....
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by effigy » 09 Mar 2013, 03:42

NoQ wrote:Emm guys i'm still not figuring out what's with all this talking? Aint learning the best part of it? If you don't want to learn the tech tree, you just go play tic-tac-toe? If you don't like the need for clicking quickly, why don't you play some battle for wesnoth? If you don't expect to learn openings and strategies, why don't you play some, dunno ... xonotic? What makes you want to eliminate things warzone is most proud of?

Just random thoughts. There were a few good ideas in this thread already, of course.
All bad ideas would be implemented as a game mode, and not default settings, ofcourse :)

Anyway, I'm hoping my ideas are things that would make the game more friendly for new people. I don't think they negatively affect new players that would come to enjoy the game as we do, or current players.

+1 for including http://guide.wz2100.net/ into the game. Even if it were a big ugly link somewhere.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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The Overlord
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by The Overlord » 09 Mar 2013, 03:53

Basically, adding the tech tree into the game was what I was trying to say, i just took it a step further, allowing the player to do a quick search and see what is needed for the tech they want.
Iluvalar wrote:Sure, that won't help us with the balance. And on top of that, if players are not even aware anymore that they research speed upgrade to obtain rocket upgrade. Why not just giving them a rocket upgrade option in the first place ? 8)
There could be 'hint' quotes added to tell the players that they should research research upgrades to make their research faster and allow for upgrades of power and such. :P
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Iluvalar
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Iluvalar » 09 Mar 2013, 17:03

The Overlord wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:Sure, that won't help us with the balance. And on top of that, if players are not even aware anymore that they research speed upgrade to obtain rocket upgrade. Why not just giving them a rocket upgrade option in the first place ? 8)
There could be 'hint' quotes added to tell the players that they should research research upgrades to make their research faster and allow for upgrades of power and such. :P
Miserably accepting that our tech tree is a sh*t and some elements like power upgrades are OP instead of fixing it. :annoyed:
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Rommel
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Rommel » 09 Mar 2013, 21:36

I don't feel that the tech tree is sh*t, it requires learning and planning to get where you want. The only thing I would do is get rid of power and research modules and just have them upgrade, same with factory - have them all automatically upgrade when the res is done and free up trucks to be used for creating defenses.

It just seems to me ridiculous that you have to build over a factory 3 times when those trucks could be used to create defenses and thus a more exciting game. As it stands now, new players are often left completely confused what to do at early game, being bombarded with demands from team mates to upgrade while wanting to build their defenses, etc, etc

I feel that doing this would get rid of a lot of new user frustration and create better games as there would be less micromanaging at the start and peeps bases would be quickly defended against stupid end gaming rushes. The oil, res and factory continue to upgrade throughout the tree, so why should it be the first one that requires building, why not all? better yet, why not none...

At least could some thought be given to add this as an option?
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Per » 10 Mar 2013, 00:44

Rommel wrote:At least could some thought be given to add this as an option?
Exactly. Someone should make a mod to showcase a better tech tree / game rules.

What I'm trying to do lately is to add the tools necessary to test out new rules, by moving more of them into scripts and ini files(*).

*)Well, except right now I'm too busy with more important stuff to work much on warzone, but you know, that's life. I hope I am not disappointing or offending anyone by my lack of response to anyone's contributions. As long as it is on the tracker, I'll get back to it eventually.

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Rommel
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Rommel » 10 Mar 2013, 07:51

Per wrote:I hope I am not disappointing or offending anyone by my lack of response to anyone's contributions. As long as it is on the tracker, I'll get back to it eventually.
You are a champ, and there can be no offense - it's not like you are getting paid for working on WZ. There's no hurry and if peeps are peeved that it's taking too long, well they should get busy and code it up themselves.
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Originway » 15 Mar 2013, 01:06

NoQ wrote:Emm guys i'm still not figuring out what's with all this talking? Aint learning the best part of it? If you don't want to learn the tech tree, you just go play tic-tac-toe? If you don't like the need for clicking quickly, why don't you play some battle for wesnoth? If you don't expect to learn openings and strategies, why don't you play some, dunno ... xonotic? What makes you want to eliminate things warzone is most proud of?

Just random thoughts. There were a few good ideas in this thread already, of course.
NO!
it is too hard for new people to get into it quickly
play a game with new people and you will see how bad they are and if you beat them too fast then they get pissed off and quit

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Iluvalar
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by Iluvalar » 15 Mar 2013, 03:38

Per wrote:
Rommel wrote:At least could some thought be given to add this as an option?
Exactly. Someone should make a mod to showcase a better tech tree / game rules.
It's obvious whatever we try to change, the old tech tree would be around here for a long time before we break the compatibility to it.
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Re: Starting power level amount

Post by NoQ » 15 Mar 2013, 07:32

play a game with new people and you will see how bad they are and if you beat them too fast then they get pissed off and quit
I don't care about people who can't even accept a defeat in the game they play for the first time. Changing the game won't help them; in fact, nothing will. Even if you reduce the game to TicTacToe2100, they will still get pissed off and quit after the first game.

On the other hand, i've seen players who become quite cunning in one or two weeks of multiplayer.

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