NTW map in WZ

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themac
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NTW map in WZ

Post by themac » 07 Aug 2013, 08:43

I was really surprised to see that one of these "anti-maps" has found his way into Warzone: The rubbish NTW map: totally flat, nothing to do, boring as hell. Why the hell can´t we put decent maps into Warzone? I remember a thread that was asking for some nice maps to fit into the game. Some more of that NTW maps and we should name Warzone to Borezone or Dullzone. -.-

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by _scavfan_ » 07 Aug 2013, 11:03

themac wrote:I was really surprised to see that one of these "anti-maps" has found his way into Warzone: The rubbish NTW map: totally flat, nothing to do, boring as hell. Why the hell can´t we put decent maps into Warzone? I remember a thread that was asking for some nice maps to fit into the game. Some more of that NTW maps and we should name Warzone to Borezone or Dullzone. -.-
I agree. Players are today playing too much NTW and other high-oil maps, just to make "running out of power" impossible.
Otherwise, when hosting low oil very few players are joining game. :(
NTW could be more interesting when oils would have different placement.

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by crab_ » 07 Aug 2013, 11:22

Hello.

This topic about "stupid high-oil" has been discussed many times here on forum.

You guys are wrong in many of your statements.
II've played hundreds high-oil games, so i know what i'm saying :)
_scavfan_ wrote:just to make "running out of power" impossible.
It is incorrect.
In competitive high-oil matches players are out of energy all time. Have zero energy is normal in high-oil. Player still need to select what to do first and how spent energy.
_scavfan_ wrote:Otherwise, when hosting low oil very few players are joining game.
Low oil games are unfriendly for new players.
Players forced to remember each map and remember placement of oil.
Players forced to remember whole research tree, because mistakes in research are very important. In low oil you cannot play normal game if you dont remeber what to research.
_scavfan_ wrote:NTW could be more interesting when oils would have different placement.
That will bring stupid and boring micro-management. Because its really boring to care of 40 oils all time.
Players will be forced to play attack strategy.
NTW-maps makes players able to select what to do: attack or defense.
In low-oil games you cannot just select defense. It is just simple plain fact of game balance data.
themac wrote:The rubbish NTW map: totally flat, nothing to do, boring as hell.
Flat map makes players able to build hundreds of various defenses and make possible to see hundreds units fighting at same time.
In NTW you can help your allies, you can combine your forces. This is impossible on map with narrow passages (classic maps)
themac wrote:Why the hell can´t we put decent maps into Warzone?
By default warzone does not contain NTW map.
Player are making this NTW maps and player are playing this maps. This is the main line of Warzone last years.
Low-oil games mostly is race of trucks, race of build orders. High-oil is more war games.
themac wrote:Some more of that NTW maps and we should name Warzone to Borezone or Dullzone. -.
Some players hate high-oil. Some players hate games where they cannot win.
Warzone2100 Guide - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by _scavfan_ » 07 Aug 2013, 12:01

crab_ wrote: Players forced to remember each map and remember placement of oil.
Players forced to remember whole research tree, because mistakes in research are very important. In low oil you cannot play normal game if you dont remeber what to research.
I understand that newbies are playing high oil. But when you have more expirience, it is easier to remember oil placement. In low oil there is no chance for really fast rush, but you still won't go to the end of research tree. So, basically, you need to know only one part of it, especially if you use only two type of weapons.
BTW question: low oil isn't normal game!? :annoyed: :stressed:
NTW-maps makes players able to select what to do: attack or defense.
Only two options. In low oil you need better strategy. True it is unfriendly to newbies, but I don't see why other players should reject it...
Some players hate high-oil. Some players hate games where they cannot win.
Personally I don't hate NTW so much, but in T2 and T3 it gets really annoying.

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by crab_ » 07 Aug 2013, 12:30

_scavfan_ wrote:I understand that newbies are playing high oil. But when you have more expirience, it is easier to remember oil placement.
agreed. BUT on low-oil maps you need exactly remember oil placement.
If your trucks lost race to oil then enemy can get more oil from start than you.
_scavfan_ wrote: In low oil there is no chance for really fast rush
This is incorrect statement. In current Warzone version 3.1.0 fast rush is very effective strategy in low oil matches.
10-15 minues for 1 game 1vs1 on low oil is normal.
See videos of warzone tournaments
http://www.youtube.com/user/WWT2012Reviewer/videos
http://vk.com/videos31142671?section=album_48629184
Example of fast rush http://vk.com/video31142671_165311916
_scavfan_ wrote:BTW question: low oil isn't normal game!?
Personally I like low oil more than high-oil. But many players are playing high-oil. I think there is should be reasonable causes why players play high-oil
_scavfan_ wrote:Only two options. In low oil you need better strategy. True it is unfriendly to newbies, but I don't see why other players should reject it...
When you used to play high-oil it is hard to switch to low-oil, because you are becoming noob again.
_scavfan_ wrote:Personally I don't hate NTW so much, but in T2 and T3 it gets really annoying.
in T2 and T3 beginners just have more chances to win, at least they can make defense.
I think warzone community should more care about beginners.
Warzone2100 Guide - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by themac » 07 Aug 2013, 12:36

But searching for and holding oil derricks is an important part of the game. If people play maps with tons of oil they don´t play Warzone - they play Oilzone. :augh: I found that NTW map in the maps folder now. I killed it. :)

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by _scavfan_ » 07 Aug 2013, 12:59

crab_ wrote: agreed. BUT on low-oil maps you need exactly remember oil placement.
If your trucks lost race to oil then enemy can get more oil from start than you.

That doesn't need to be necesarry.
So we have only two solution for low oil:
1) Put all resources in base
2) Leave resuorces around map, but defend them with scavs.
I think there is should be reasonable causes why players play high-oil
Not sure, but maybe high-oil players don't like low oil so much.
When you used to play high-oil it is hard to switch to low-oil, because you are becoming noob again.
If first going to medium oil, then low oil it can be easier a bit.

Too bad that there is no such thing as "map for everybody".

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Re: NTW map in WZ

Post by +++ New Paradigm +++ » 15 May 2021, 06:45

What does NTW even mean?
Why are NTW maps so popular?
Why are NTW players so impatient and rude to those who play classic games?

I personally much prefer the classic games (not NTW!). NTW maps just end up in one tank battle and are absent of most of the strategy and tactics that make Warzone 2100 one of the best RTS games still to this day.

For instance in NTW maps there is limited (no) economy management as resources are so plentiful as one often has of the order of 100 derricks in one's base. In classic games one usually has four derricks in one's base and another four that are nearby.

In classic games one must be VERY careful how one invests their power, and one must balance expenditure with income else their economy will stall and things will take a very long time to complete requiring the player to prioritise and pause tasks in real time.

Additionally, in NTW maps there is simply no fighting for resources. In classic games contesting resource points is essential as every drop of power is precious. The one with the most power has a clear advantage - so long as they both spend and use it wisely.

Additionally, in NTW maps the engagement strategy is very limited. In classic games, for example one can hit and run crippling enemy resources or production, and games often see many significant battles, not just a single one like in NTW maps. Micro-ing and positioning one's forces is also far more necessary in classic games - one must position one's forces to defend one's base, and the usually many ways it can be assailed, while also keeping the opportunity to attack one's opponent when the opportunity arises.

Finally, in NTW games rushing is not a viable strategy. In classic games rushing one's opponent is one way to win the game. A rush strategy can of course be parried, and with good players there is always engagement of forces from the very first minute of the game.

I would argue NTW maps are actually not new-user friendly as to succeed on them requires deep knowledge of Warzone's complex tech tree as well as familiarity with the mechanics of the game and a clear understanding of the best units to make.

More players need to play and host classic games, as classic games are where this masterpiece of a game truly shines.

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