Units preview. Why it should be back...

[Iluvalar]

I agree with you on that point effigy, only clicking on a spot on the map to see what happen there is the exact opposite of the scouting promotion at the base of the preview removal. And I still don't see why we couldn't have the minimal intelligence service to be vaguely aware of what the opponent is producing. I just feel that UAV idea is worst than the preview itself. Unless they are automatic and invisible to both players and go check the unit produced and send their data in real time... hehehe

I dont like your idea per, the scout would try to go into the opponent base and dance around the trucks to slow down the construction phase which would be epically annoying. Wouldn't fit in warzone at all, then the opponent would produce a very fast unit (viper wheel) to get rid of the nuisance. This mean a change in behavior in research and build order that would favor "rushy" strategies. The scout will retreat because he is faster, but then he would get a single chance to go peak the real stuff before he die. There will be a random game there to chose the good moment for your one shot scout. It would be played by both players. ie. they might build tank traps, produce a false unit, hide the production on a cliff or delay it a bit more. None of that seem to me like Warzone2100.

The only viable solution we got till now is the addition of a new research which would be a prerequisite for all military upgrades past the starting weapons. But i'm not sure you'll not hate it more than you actually hate the preview...

[effigy]

How about a combination of Per's UAV proposal and vexed's CRC = preview within a specified radius: The CRC could zap an area of the map, but instead of revealing the area zapped (eg. SC) you're allowed to see the most common unit within a specified radius for 30 seconds in the wz traditional "preview" way. The CRC would take 2 minutes to reload. Sensor upgrades could either increase the previewable radius or the duration of the preview, or both.

[Emdek]

effigy, yep, makes sense, but I would consider putting very early available research requirement to get such things.
Also it doesn't dismiss parallel possibility described here (inspired by UAVs idea), which would allow reaching to more distant places but with limitations.

[Iluvalar]

2 things with that :
First the CRC.... You mean that, the players that want to keep more chances to control the game would research sensor first while players that wouldn't care about throwing dices would do as usual and start with the engineering and therefore be rewarded to not care ?

Second, assuming we have that power.. I don't see the point anymore. Do I look at intelligence screen 25% of the game ? I dont think I use it that much. Let's face it : either you give enough time, and small cooldown and the result is the unit preview with an extra annoying click, either you limit it too much and then we have no equivalent to the unit preview and the game still skewed toward chance.

If that's were we want to go, let's just create a new unit called the spy flying droids
*Let's give it at start.
*it fly at awsome speed, but dont see the exact position of the enemy, just their nature.
*let's make it move by itself (go from one base to another) so the player don't have to make annoying and repetitive clicks.
*To promote the scouting, let's make it even weaker and just show the last unit produced instead of any statistics about their numbers. So the players will want more information and send real units to scout .
*Finally, let's make it totally invisible, so I don't get fired by early machine guns.

[Emdek]

Iluvalar, your spy unit is similar in nature to balloons from that topic but too robust, I think.

[Reg312]

Iluvalar, your spy unit is similar in nature to balloons from that topic but too robust, I think.

i can say baloons not in tech WZ style

better make radar which only can show size of units is it units big or small (determine cyborgs, light tanks or heavy tanks)
maybe put unit preview which show only size of units and nothing more

sorry i didnt read all latest messages here

[Emdek]

These are most logical solution for primitive early available thing.
Especially since someone pointed that in fact transport unit (in campaign available from start) is more like a blimp.

[aubergine]

If there was some sort of spy (unit or special building feature), could reports be made accessible from the intel map reticule?

[Giani]

Without the units preview the alliances have more sense. Because you can give and receive technology.

[Giani]

Changing weapons isnt expensive. The only thing that takes much time is changing to cyborgs or vtols. For scouting well you can use hovers, lot of cheap scouts or you can use a fast VTOLs.

[Iluvalar]

You haven't researched the weapon you need, but you spent longer in a research you don't. And you already spent in units, that will ,at the best, become obsolete prematurely because you quit their research path. (more likely will die like fly because they dont even have the good weapons).

And you will need a longer research time before you can reach the weapon modifier advantage back. The 3 minutes it took you to execute the scouting, will translate into 6:00¹ MORE minutes where you fight with the wrong weapon modifier.

you only need hovers.

That's the point, you are lucky if you reach that and still have any chances left to recover.

¹ the first 3 minutes, and another 3 minutes to recover your research lost.

[Iluvalar]

we test a MACHINE GUN facing MACHINE GUN and adapting to MACHINE GUN...
For a Reaction at 1:0 (Hardened MG Bullets), recover the adapt1:11come back 1:11 demi-reversal at 1:47
For a Reaction at 2:0 (Hardened MG Bullets), recover the adapt2:22come back 2:58 demi-reversal at 4:45
For a Reaction at 3:0 (APDSB MG Bullets), recover the adapt3:34come back 4:10 demi-reversal at 5:21
For a Reaction at 4:0 (APDSB MG Bullets), recover the adapt4:10come back 5:21 demi-reversal at 10:42
For a Reaction at 5:0 (APDSB MG Bullets), recover the adapt5:21come back 5:57 demi-reversal at 11:54
For a Reaction at 6:0 (APDSB MG Bullets), recover the adapt6:32come back 8:20 demi-reversal at 12:30
For a Reaction at 7:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt8:20come back 9:31 demi-reversal at 13:41
For a Reaction at 8:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt8:55come back 10:42 demi-reversal at 36:18
For a Reaction at 9:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt10:7come back 11:18 demi-reversal at 37:30
For a Reaction at 10:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt11:18come back 12:30 demi-reversal at 38:5
For a Reaction at 11:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt11:54come back 13:41 demi-reversal at 39:17
For a Reaction at 12:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt13:5come back 38:5 demi-reversal at 40:28
For a Reaction at 13:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt14:17come back 39:17 demi-reversal at 41:40
For a Reaction at 14:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk2), recover the adapt14:52come back 42:15 demi-reversal at 42:15
For a Reaction at 15:0 (Chaingun Upgrade), recover the adapt16:4come back 43:27 demi-reversal at 43:27
For a Reaction at 16:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt18:27come back 44:38 demi-reversal at 44:38
For a Reaction at 17:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt19:38come back 45:14 demi-reversal at 45:14
For a Reaction at 18:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt20:14come back 46:25 demi-reversal at 46:25
For a Reaction at 19:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt21:25come back 47:37 demi-reversal at 47:37
For a Reaction at 20:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt26:47come back 48:12 demi-reversal at 48:12
For a Reaction at 21:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt27:58come back 49:24 demi-reversal at 49:24
For a Reaction at 22:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt28:34come back 50:35 demi-reversal at 50:35
For a Reaction at 23:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt29:45come back 51:11 demi-reversal at 51:11
For a Reaction at 24:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt30:57come back 52:22 demi-reversal at 52:22
For a Reaction at 25:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt31:32come back 53:34 demi-reversal at 53:34
For a Reaction at 26:0 (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3), recover the adapt32:44come back 54:10 demi-reversal at 54:10
For a Reaction at 27:0 (Tungsten-Tipped MG Bullets), recover the adapt41:40come back 55:21 demi-reversal at 0:0
For a Reaction at 28:0 (Tungsten-Tipped MG Bullets), recover the adapt42:51come back 56:32 demi-reversal at 0:0
For a Reaction at 29:0 (Tungsten-Tipped MG Bullets), recover the adapt49:24come back 57:8 demi-reversal at 0:0
For a Reaction at 30:0 (Tungsten-Tipped MG Bullets), recover the adapt50:0come back 58:20 demi-reversal at 0:0
Recover the adapt mean : Having the new weapon making the same damage than the old one.
A come back mean : Having the new weapon making the same damage than your opponent. You stop paying the consequences of the starting situation...
A demi-reversal mean : having a weapon half as good as the opponent weapon was good at the adapt point.

Ok this is real datas... I hope the last skeptic will understand that.
What this mean is, if you click on (APDSB MG Bullets Mk3) near 7:00 and it's not the "good" choice, your chance to make a reversal delay by 20 minutes (this is pretty much never in my book).
And if your slow and pass 11:00, your simple chances to ever reach the enemy strength delay suddenly by 25 minutes !

This is REAL datas this mean, that it's between 7:00 and 11:00 than the game is sealed. Can we had a 2-3 minutes scouting delay into that time window without consequences ? I don't think so.

[Giani]

The enemy wont stay in his base whit all his units, he will try to get more oil so you will see his units atacking your oil derricks.

[Iluvalar]

Why not ? He have at least 50% chance to win if he do.

All he need is to spam some generic low end units that most of the time are not linked to his research path. And fight the first 5 minutes like that. Anyway, if the enemy is dumb enough to send him a real army, he will have a chance to adapt . So nobody would do that.

[Giani]

You said that whitout units preview the enemy will make randomly units so if you can scout very fast you still dont know which weapons/units he is using, but they can do the same whit units preview.